Blood?

Keir Maxwell · #1 January 6th, 2004, 05:56 AM

Just knocked off an Ice Devil by turn 20 doing it via construction. Got Nycator who can't take weapons and is extremely sensitive to temperature - not good for Mictlan.

Did it affect my development? Hugely. I got hammered - but I got an Ice Devil.

Skipping construction I could go significantly quicker but to what affect? Not an efficient option for Mictlan with their heat dominion - more a Caelum/Jotun thing with their cold Dominion. Ice Devils are not *that* good unless you are a cold nation. Geting them t.8-9 with Caelum in dom1 was freak show material - Caelum was vastly more powerful played conventionally.

I think for Mictlan if you want to go blood early its as Alex suggested - Contracts utilsing your con research and then I'd follow up with a bit of conj, then alt6 for Mass Protection. I hate watching my guys get trashed by real troops. Going con2 then alt6 is what I'll try next and then see how the blood is looking.

One thing I would say - Mictlan can sure get alot of slaves! The Mictlan Priest is pretty amazing as a blood searcher with an SDR and with magic3 the research flies. I'm not so sure SDR's are redundant. At least not for Mictlan with their ultra cheap blood mage.

Cheers

Keir

Keir Maxwell · #2 January 6th, 2004, 06:03 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jasper:
This may be the crux of our disagreement. If scouts weren't so good at hunting summoning Ice Devils would be a much bigger investment.

So from that may I take it that you agree that early blood could do with a boost (perhaps more multi-summons) when Illwinter fix the glich making scouts good blood hunters?

Cheers

Keir

Keir Maxwell · #3 January 6th, 2004, 06:08 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jasper:

quote:
Originally posted by Bowlingballhead:
As a GREAT fan of blood magic, I promise you that none of the 'boss' demons are so tremendously powerful in combat.

Are you seriously suggesting that Super Combatants are ineffective?! I have seen and done otherwise, and from what I've read my exerience is common.

I don't think his comment was about SC's in general but "boss" demons.

In Dom1 Ice Devils and Illearths were great SC's but the others weren't really set up for SC. In Dom2 with only 1 Illearth and 7 Ice devils its not exactly a huge pool of SC's to go after - especially if other players are also looking at demons.

Cheers

Keir

Jasper · #4 January 6th, 2004, 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Keir Maxwell:
So from that may I take it that you agree that early blood could do with a boost (perhaps more multi-summons) when Illwinter fix the glich making scouts good blood hunters?

I've always thought the low level summons needed a boost, although I actually think the blood ones are better than many of the lower level Conjurations. I'd vote for lowering the cost of things like Cave Drakes slightly, and doubling the cost/output of the low level demon summons.

However, I don't think it's a glitch that scouts are good blood hunters, as they've always been that way (worse with dousing rods). I'm not sure whether/how to rebalance them, as most of the races with blood magic rely upon them to get anything out of it. Besides, IMHO Scouts themeatically make sense for the job.

One thought is to only allow blood mages to hunt for slaves -- or anyone with a dousing rod. This makes more sense to me thematically, but is a very drastic change.

Jasper · #5 January 6th, 2004, 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Keir Maxwell:
I don't think his comment was about SC's in general but "boss" demons.

IMHO there is no way to avoid the comparison, as the big demons make the best Super Combatants, with the occasional exception of Pretenders.

Jasper · #6 January 6th, 2004, 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Zen:
I have gotten an Ice Devil with a Wraith Sword and Boots of Flight by turn 16. Then turn 17 Alteration 2.

That's pretty scary! I'd hate to run into such a nation without access to Paralyze. Were you using Jotunheim?

#7 January 6th, 2004, 04:51 PM

No I used Arco. So I had access to Paralyze as well. Arco is probably my top pick for survivable units with the combination of high hit point Elephants, high protection and shield using Hypsists (for 2 movement with elephants) and a priestess for heal.

I used my pretender (3 Turns) and a scout population to field the slaves and my cheap researchers were mystics.

Another bonus is that Arco doesn't need to use it's mage base to expand like others (for quickness, raise skeletons, etc) to expand as they are powerful later as opposed to right away.

Another one that worked very well was C'tis I had a IDevil at turn 20, then 21 I got the sword and boots (this is my favored way to equip an ID for owning provinces) as well as my alteration. I also had Enchantment 3. So by and large, it can be done if you really force yourself. But I've found more to my liking, casting 2 Hordes from Hell, as it allows multiple armies nearly as effective as the ID as well as patrol force.

I'd have to play with it more; but it does come with certain costs and isn't for every race.

I never played the Dom1 ID rush; but this is perfectly acceptable timing for me to have or fight against an ID. Turn 10 would be hard, but nearing 20 it's more copeable.