Blood?

[Jasper]

Good example! Interesting that you consider the Starshine Skullcap mandatory, although with the new power of Paralyze I can begin to see why.

IMHO you can still use Ice Devils solo for raiding or taking on small forces (just not full armies). The trick is to move lots of scouts with them, which you then unstealth as chaff.

Now if only we could draw Wendigo into the discussion... I'd love to hear his thoughts on Super Combatants, especially in Dom 2.

[Nagot Gick Fel]

Originally posted by Windreaper:
EQ I use with Ice Devils.

Agree on every point, except the Messenger boots. Flying is an awesome ability to get on Ice devils (more for strategical than tactical reasons). I was fond of starshine skullcaps and rainbow armors for my SCs in Doms 1.

An idea that might be worth trying: give your IDs Bone armors (those with builtin Soul Vortex) - they're expensive but as long as there's a living creature in the vicinity you've got fatigue recovery even if unconscious. And that might win you a battle even if paralyzed.

[Keir Maxwell]

Originally posted by Windreaper:
As people mentioned before, supercombatants should be used with an army because they're just too easy to lose - spells like wind ride and mind hunt, for example, can put hurt to single commanders no matter who they are. Also, with an army you usually have access to Relief which really helps to keep your SC alive.

Agree.

Interesting post - must study it at my leasure.

On the SC topic I've been having fun with Utgard Jotun Herses and Jarls and high nature (10) and some fire(4). What I like about it is you can try out heaps of different arrangements of magic items. Seems to work alright and having a big number of cheap weak to medium SC's means less vunerability to nasty spells. I'm enjoying this approach more than the limited SC angle of blood. Still a bit of tweaking to go but a race with a heap of SC's (even if they aren't flash) gives much of the pleasure of old SC races.

Are Jotun Herses the SC's of the future?

Cheers

Keir

[Windreaper]

Originally posted by Nagot Gick Fel:

quote:

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Originally posted by Windreaper:
EQ I use with Ice Devils.

Agree on every point, except the Messenger boots. Flying is an awesome ability to get on Ice devils (more for strategical than tactical reasons). I was fond of starshine skullcaps and rainbow armors for my SCs in Doms 1.

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I see your point there and to quote myself:
"Boots: boots of the messenger, flying boots (again, unless I'm using rainbow armor I often get the messenger boots)"

Still, getting nailed by a single quickened arch seraph casting orb lightning kind of sucks so I'd take survivability over strategic mobility in this case. It's a matter of taste however. Rainbow Armor/Flying Shoes might be better if you wish to take part in smaller combats with less mage power in play.

Jasper: Good point, you just don't want to unstealth your scouts. If they happen to get attacked and you lose a scout the whole army retreats, ugh. Never tried it this way so I'm not 100% sure of this, however. OTOH, you could always keep some mock troops with your ID to prevent this from happening.

[Nagot Gick Fel]

Originally posted by Windreaper:
I see your point there and to quote myself:
"Boots: boots of the messenger, flying boots (again, unless I'm using rainbow armor I often get the messenger boots)"

Yes I've seen that line, but myself I'll stick to flying boots in most cases even with no rainbow armor. I couldn't pass on the fact that flying IDs can strike wherever I want within a 3-provinces radius, and limiting your opponent's ability to predict your next move so drastically is invaluable. In a sense this unpredictability improves the ID's survavibility, while maximizing his efficiency at the same time (on the contrary a non-flying IDs isn't assured to fight every turn, and may often miss opportunities to cause the most damage to your enemy).

Still, getting nailed by a single quickened arch seraph casting orb lightning kind of sucks so I'd take survivability over strategic mobility in this case.

I can't see how boots of the messenger would help better than flying boots in this scenario. When you fly you can always hit something, and regain hit points and fatigue from it. Although if I knew I had to fight Caelum, I'd just fly away to a lab, equip shock resistance gear, and be back to fight 2 turns later.

It's a matter of taste however. Rainbow Armor/Flying Shoes might be better if you wish to take part in smaller combats with less mage power in play.

Everyone is allowed his own opinion and I respect yours. I prefer to use IDs as raiders, and flying is essential to me. Now of course I could use the trampling winged armor with boots of the messenger.

The part I like about the flying boots is you can send out your ID out only partially equipped (without the Elemental Hauberk for example) with flying boots as you choose provinces that have less likely of a chance of getting attacked by anything except provencial defenses. Hurting your opponent faster or while you don't have as many gems as you need. Then when you get your new equipment forged you can just jump back to a lab like Nagot said and equip him. Also I have alot more success with killing retreating armies by boxing in provinces with IDs.

Even with Starshine Cap, Lead Shield, and AMA the poor guy will still get hit by spells, especially if the casters have any sort of penetration. That's why I think that Windreaper considers the cap *required* because it is basically a 'free slot' with MR on it.

[ January 09, 2004, 21:11: Message edited by: Zen ]

[Jasper]

Originally posted by Windreaper:
Jasper: Good point, you just don't want to unstealth your scouts. If they happen to get attacked and you lose a scout the whole army retreats, ugh. Never tried it this way so I'm not 100% sure of this, however. OTOH, you could always keep some mock troops with your ID to prevent this from happening.

Stealthy targets don't get hit by spells like Wind Ride, and so you must unstealth your scouts for them to work as chaff. Stealth is a very nice ability for a raiding Super Combatant to have!

You do have to be a bit carefull, for as you allude this scout tactic is vulnerable to teleport attacks (before you leave the scouts), especially if your retreat provinces are simultaneosly cut. Still, this is less of a risk than Wind Ride.

[ January 10, 2004, 05:22: Message edited by: Jasper ]