Jotunheim

[Niefelson]

Hi All,

Had a quick glance at all the topics but could not spot any on Jotunheim. Would just like to start a thread to discuss issues with those interested in developing this race. I kinda like them hence the nick and all

So... first question to start the thread off.

Q: Can someone give me a good suggestion as to what to do with the hero that sits on a wolf? He's such a useless dude I haven't even bothered to remember his name.. I mean he can lead a decent number of troops into battle... but dats about it. Sneak troops? Maybe... BUt any other suggestions out there?

[Wauthan]

I turned Sporsnjall into an assassin with the Black Heart. His high speed and defence eventually made him the most succesful "problem solver" I ever found in the game. It was well worth putting some higher tier items on this unit and even let him empower once in earth to allow him to cast Steelskin.

My turn. Anyone know of a good way to use the Jotun scouts? Being large burly sacred sneaking troops and all but they seem to go down pretty fast in pitched battle.

[Gandalf Parker]

In both cases (wolf rider and scout) they work better than most nations scouts as being able to take advantage of an opporunity. NO, they dont work well against independents. But if you discover an AI then you might watch for unprotected provinces inside his domain and attack those.

You dont have to keep them. Crank the taxes to max and move on. You get gold, maybe drive the unrest too high fo him to use for gold/units even if he does get it back. Or put some defense into the place and see if you can hold it. 6 points on Jotun defence is worth twice that of any other nation.

Just those units can start a real nice hit-n-run conflict with some nation that doesnt even have a clue yet where you are to hit you back. Of course this works better with AI's than in multiplay since they WILL find you and they will start using defenses more. But pros and cons exist. In multi you seem to find back provinces undefended more often than against AI's. You just have to make use of it quicker since human players tend to learn faster

[ December 30, 2003, 14:04: Message edited by: Gandalf Parker ]

[Niefelson]

Great feedback... keep it comin'

Jotun actually has a good number of sacred troops under the Niefelhiem theme. Massing 9N for the beserker and regen on bless works well with Jotun sacreds. But man... Jotun troops are damn expensive to recruit. I've tried building an army which consisted of 80% leaders and a handful of Niefel Giants and have the Godes bless everybody. Worked pretty well except when trying to attack a province, I had to click like 20 times to get everyone to attack . Bummer..

[Windreaper]

Niefelson: You can use ctrl and shift keys to group leaders together in Dom2 (the biggest improvement in addition to pooled research, imo). The Groups created stay over turns and can be activated by clicking on any of the members.

[Teraswaerto]

Spornsjall has a standard, which can be useful, especially early on.

Niefel Jarls are real killing machines with just quickness & breath of winter & wraith sword. Adding other stuff like ring of regen, that amulet that gives luck, etc. makes them even better. Works like a charm, at least until someone paralyzes them.

[Orlanth]

You are right on focusing on the strong, bless-effect troops. If you crank out enough Herses early in the game many will get into the Hall of Fame and become quite legendary over time. At first I was using Water 9 for the defense and quickness, but now I think a Great Mother with Earth 4 Nature 9 really maximizes the units' strengths. Those giants have the hitpoints to get their money's worth from regeneration (especially if they're getting hacked up while berserk and reinvigoration can allow you to get away with Black Steel armor on the commanders (good thing it's one-size-fits-all..) If you can afford it, Earth 9 Nature 9 would be even better and might make those Woodsmen useful for a change. NJ's work great as a prophet - that mass-bless spell is indispensable when you're hauling around umpteen Niefel Giants and Herses. And if you're in a strong dominion he can be a great fighter (with Holy Avenger to boot).

I always get stuck though with Jotun magic - never know what to aim for, and the mages are so expensive (and poor searchers) that I end up falling behind. Should I focus on Blood, or what? And has anyone successfully pulled off an Illwinter? I'm curious to know do the Rimtursar actually ever arrive, or is it just there for the cold and unrest?

[Orlanth]

And another thing - if you can get them, Boots of the Behemoth are fantastic for your heroes!

[Saber Cherry]

Originally posted by Orlanth:
And another thing - if you can get them, Boots of the Behemoth are fantastic for your heroes!

That's true. But only for Jotunheim. I used to put BoB on Werewolves (size 3), and recently I played Pangaea to try out their War Minotaurs...

...and I think both are nearly worthless!! Trample on size 3 units is just no good. That's 6 ap damage (strength not added), and a size 3 trampler seems to only trample 1 square per turn, but gets a lot of fatigue for it.

Size 4 (like Jotuns), though, is much, much better... 8 ap damage on twice as many units.

[Truper]

I always get stuck though with Jotun magic - never know what to aim for, and the mages are so expensive (and poor searchers) that I end up falling behind. Should I focus on Blood, or what?

What I like to do is focus on construction, all the way to level 4. This gets me several great toys for Jotunheim. First, Skull Mentors. I prefer the Iron Woods theme to Neifelheim, and once I can forge Skull Mentors, the cheap Vaetti Hags suddenly become research powerhouses. In fact, I often take drain with Jotun. Once you have the Mentors, you don't notice the research hit, and Jotun doesn't rely on battlefield magic for initial expansion. Second - Wraith Swords. The power of these in the hands of a giant is obvious. Now forging both these things requires death gems, so I horde them until I can spend them on the goodies above.

Next on the program for me is conjuration 2, for Dark Knowledge. I want more death gems so I can make still more mentors, and more swords, and Dark Knowledge is the fastest way to find death sites.

After that... well after that, what I go for will depend alot on the situation. Often more conjuration, to be able to spend nature gems on something like Pride of Lions. Sometimes Blood, if I feel like I have time on my side. I am usually aiming for Ice Devils, and those are a serious investment.

As a tactical tip, try using Herses almost as you would use cavalry - I've had good success with putting 2 - 3 of them way to the side with orders to hold a turn, attack rearmost. They do tend to get into the Hall of Fame, and the one who gets the most interesting HoF bonus gets that 1st Wraith Sword