What do you think about ermor in dom2

[Graeme Dice]

Originally posted by Wendigo:
The mages are far from cheap, only 1 in 8 of the higher class will roll astral 3.

Thaumaturgs are not that expensive, which is what the original poster was referring to for use as a communicant.

All the above nations will Magic duel your Broken Empire mages to nothingess, so you either field no mages or lose them all. Unlike, say Marignon, Abysia or Midgard Vanheim who can choose to field their other (non astral) mages.

I think you overrate the danger of magic duel, as even in DOM 1 an astral 3 mage had a (3+1d6)/(5+1d6) chance of beating an astral 5 mage in a duel.

[Endoperez]

Originally posted by Graeme Dice:

quote:

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I think you overrate the danger of magic duel, as even in DOM 1 an astral 3 mage had a (3+1d6)/(5+1d6) chance of beating an astral 5 mage in a duel.

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After the bug fix. Before that, the one who cast Magic Duel got a +99 (or +999, absurd number in either case) bonus for him... And that is the reason for the most fear: better mages won allways. This image was formed becose you only used the spell only when you already had the better mages, and AI doesn't seem to ever cast magic duel.

And yes, I meant the Broken, not Ashen Empire. I don't know much about magic duel, I have never seen it used to fully decimate the mages of other side. And I don't know much about mages of Broken Empire, but I assumed they have a cheap mage. How expensive is the Thaumaturg Graeme Dice mentioned? What magics does he have? 1 astral 2 unholy?

[Wendigo]

Originally posted by Graeme Dice:
Thaumaturgs are not that expensive, which is what the original poster was referring to for use as a communicant.

I thought so. Yet I do not consider them expensive as an absolute value, I consider them expensive related to their use & related to comparable mages.

Compare the cost of the following alternate communion slaves:
Thaumaturg 130, vaetti hag 55, seithkona 90, theurg communicant 50, theurg acolyte 90, starchild 85, shaman 110.

I think you overrate the danger of magic duel, as even in DOM 1 an astral 3 mage had a (3+1d6)/(5+1d6) chance of beating an astral 5 mage in a duel. [/qb]

Yet, who would you put your money on?

In my Dom I experience the spell had always a considerable effect in battles between Astral nations. In Dom II it is weaker (ties kill both), but still strong.

It's not just the fact that Broken Empire is one of the weakest Astral nations, it's that combined with:

-The mages being expensive for the amount of 'Astral power' they can field when facing another Astral nation.
-The nation has no alternate mages nor priests, apart from the weak cultist.

Heck, Pythium could use 150 gold Astral2 Theurgs to Magic duel 340 gold Grand Thaumaturgs on equal terms....

[ January 06, 2004, 14:56: Message edited by: Wendigo ]

Don't forget your Thamaturgs and Grand Thamaturgs tendancy to after getting done with your scripted spells, to only cast unholy buffing spells

That can in and of itself, make you want to shoot them.

[Nagot Gick Fel]

Originally posted by Wendigo:
Heck, Pythium could use 150 gold Astral2 Theurgs to Magic duel 340 gold Grand Thaumaturgs on equal terms....

OTOH a beefed up Grand Thaumaturg (magic penetration items, communion, crystal shield, power of the spheres, whatever) can try Apostacy on this Theurg. Pretty funny when it works, and from my tests I can say a 4-slaves communion and a Spell Focus is enough to have a regular Theurg change sides ~50% of the time.

[ywl]

Originally posted by Wendigo:

Ermor [broken empire] is an excellent nation that combines very good troops with some astral and death magic. It is a very capable nation that is worth exploring. [/qb]

I'd rather play Ashen (but this is mainly personal taste, of course).

Broken Ermor looks like a weak Pythium to me: similar troops, no communicants & hydras, lose strong astral, water & air in exchange for poor astral, poor death & unholy (poor trade IMO).

Trade-offs also from their mages having unholy priestly level: they cannot reanimate & research/cast rituals at the same time.

Cheers,
Pepe [/QB][/quote]

Broken Ermor has one weakness - i.e. expansive mages.

But they have one key advantage which can compensate most shortcomings. Their Ermor cultist can reanimate ghouls. If started from the beginning of the game, their castle will be basically unbreachable. They also get one free each turn Shadow Vestal from the capital site. They're holy and ethereal. And since they're from site, you can keep getting them even under seige.

Their regular troop is almost as good as Pythium. And I don't think death is weak, at least comparing to air and water. Less flashy on the battlefield but it has a lot of goodies and summons outside. The astral/death combination is also notoriously powerful once you get to Evocation 7. Moreover, broken Ermor's ether darter is not capital-only. Given enough cash, you can sprinkle the whole battlefield with these missle of death.

Yes. It might be weaken than Pythium but I don't think that the Broken Ermor has much to complain about comparing to other nations.

[ywl]

Originally posted by Wendigo:
To the original poster:

Others have comented SP, so I will just cover MP:
Ermor IMO is a bit stronger in Dom II than it was in Dom I (where it was rated poorly by most), the elemental magics and in particular Air & Fire are a bit weaker than they were, and those were pretty good at killing undead. Blood has also been downed a lot, and seeing as Ermor had the hardest access to it due to the nature of its population killing dominion this also good news for the undead nation.

You can also do some funny stuff with bless in Dom II, and Ermor has the most design points to draw from here, even if it cannot push recruitment of its unholy troops with as much control as a live nation.

Finally, the Undead pretenders seem to have been upped with the removal of encumbrance from Dom I, which is also good news for Ermor.

Due to all the above I would rate Ashen Empire stronger than it was in Dom I, but not between the top nations...Ermor still has a lot of drawbacks.

It is however a unique nation with an extremely different style, and that makes it a popular choice. In the end, you should play whichever nations attract you more and not those that you percieve as the most powerful, the differences are really not that big and random stuff like starting location & neighbours, or game settings have a much higher influence in who wins IMO. So just play what you like most.

Ashen Ermor is also stronger from three other reasons (Saber, if you're reading, I found it out from the battle with you :
1) Banishment is now slightly less powerful;
2) The addition of a few evocation spells has made the Ermor mages more useful on the battlefield;
3) The bless effects... Ashen Ermor is the only one who can have an insanely powerful pretender, that could boost up their Unholy Knights quite a bit. But, of course, they're still very vulnerable to "Dust to Dust" - you can't have everything .