Is Ghost Riders too powerful ?

[apoger]

You really cannot compare lesser summons to a level 9 spell. It's a whole different game when the high level stuff is researched.

Ghost Riders is a great spell and it does do good work. I doubt anyone is arguing that's it's weak.

However if you compare to other 9th level spells, you will find that the power level is not inappropriate.

We are talking about the same level of research that brings us effects such as;

Wish - Gems, Doom Horrors, you name it!
Utterdark - The whole worlds income reduced by 90%!
Flames from the Sky - Blows a chunk out of any army, anywhere.
Arcane Nexus - I can always use a few hundred astral gems every turn.


Yes Ghost Riders is strong and efficient, however we are talking about access to the most potent spells in creation.

The most capable death casters in the world can send an impressive undead force to strike at your lands? Sounds about right to me.

[Keir Maxwell]

Originally posted by ywl:

"Fire from Afar" (10 Gems). I wasn't impressed until I once got hit by the AI. It looks like nothing but you can easily lose your important and expensive mages from this spell. And it's only Level 3 Evocation!

The only spell I have lost more to playing SP is Burden of Time. I overlooked this spell early but if you can find a bunch of researchers to shoot at or get lucky and take out an uber mage its an incredible bargain. I like this spell and mean to have some fun with it.

cheers

Keir

[NTJedi]

Originally posted by Graeme Dice:
30 blood slaves is a lot easier to come by than 30 death gems, considering that 50+ a turn is achievable from a single 10K population province. [/QB]

So how many blood mages will you have wasting their time hunting for these blood slaves! And how many are able to sacrifice the income/resources/supplies from the 10K population province. Again what your saying does not come as easy you're guessing.

Plus those imps in NO WAY do as much damage as the ghost riders. Do some tests and you'll see... not to mention check the stats of those little imps.
__________________________


APoger

most of the spells you mentioned cannot target any province on the map... unlike ghost riders. Even flames from the sky will only kill a percentage... where ghost riders will destroy armies. Enemy armies will still be standing with five or seven casts of the spells you listed. With five or seven casts of ghost riders how many armies AND provinces would be lost... LOTS!
my point is nothing destroys armies faster for the cost... and any level_4 death mage can do it. (unlike other spells at or below the level)

[ January 07, 2004, 20:45: Message edited by: NTJedi ]

[Keir Maxwell]

Originally posted by Jasper:

quote:

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Originally posted by Keir Maxwell:
In all my PBEM and SP play in Dom1 and 2 I've never got to cast a 9th level spell.

Never? Strange... I found games with shifting alliances to often Last longer.

I'm curious, do you tend to play on small maps with permanent alliances? That's the only way I can imagine games consistently having such low research.

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I tend to play with no alliances or team games. As the years goes on most PBEM games I'm involved in include a fair number of players I've known since a teenager but who now live far away. As we play many games together ruthless stab in back type games are not the best way to go. There is also generally a feeling that if the game is as good as over then let the lead player win and get onto the next game as most if not all of us don't not enjoy playing monster sized games at all. Once the game goes far enough it becomes a MM nightmare and this is true of other PBEM games we played before finding Dom.

While I do understand the phenomenon of shifting alliances keeping a game going for ever I have seldom experianced it even playing cut throat games of Stars! with total strangers. Maybe I'm just a bit to persuasive but I find with diplomacy the game ends much quicker. After over a decade of talking my to victory its been very refreshing to have no diplomacy and have to tough it out.

Another reason why games I'm in are shorter is the way I play. I play very fast and aggressive. In Stars! I regularily exceded the economic targets necessary to be a monster race and combined this with extremely aggressive play generally attacking before my opponents thought it was possible. I would often get responses to my warnings I was looking to attack someone of the flavour of "you are an idiot - nobody wants an early war as it ruins their economy so sod off" - the following turn my nicely hidden fleet jumps into their HW which vanishes in a blaze of nucleur weapons. That is generally the end of discussion with that player. I tend to end games quick and thats why most of the games I am in don't reach level 9 magic.

In Stars! I never used Nubians and many players made commments to me similar to yours Jasper - how come? Because the game ended before then.

I've played enough games (I've been a multi-player addict for over 25 years) with a wide variety of settings and different Groups of players that I've come to the conclusion that this is generally the way it works when I'm playing. *shrugs*

Cheers

Keir

[apoger]

>AND MOST IMPORTANTLY THIS SPELL DOESN'T EVEN WORK.

Hordes from Hell does work.


>most of the spells you mentioned cannot target any province on the map... unlike ghost riders.

My comparisons are to 9th level spell power, not as specific effects such as "can be targeted on any province". By the same token can I state that Ghost Riders is inferior to Arcane Nexus becuase it creates zero gems? Of course not! This is simply a poor argument.


>Even flames from the sky will only kill a percentage... where ghost riders will destroy armies. Enemy armies will still be standing with five or seven casts of the spells you listed.


Large armies will shrug off Ghost Riders, when on the other hand FFTS gets more powerful as the target gets larger. Ghost Riders is better versus smaller targets and FFTS is better versus larger targets. They are different tools for different times, and both are very potent tools. Dismissing FFTS because it only does a percentage of damage is sheer ignorance.


>my point is nothing destroys armies faster for the cost...


Something has to be the best, and frankly when all things are considered it's debatable. As above FFTS is often a better choice. If I summon a Doom Horror with a Wish, it costs more, but I keep it, and as such can use it over and over again, potentially becoming more efficient than Ghost Riders. Army of the Dead leaves me with the province and an army... so if the battle doesn't require a wraith, wouldn't Army of the Dead be a better idea?


>and any level_4 death mage can do it. (unlike other spells at or below the level)

and level_4 earth mages (with Construction-9) can make Iron Dragons... which can take out small armies and don't leave after the battle.


Again, Ghost Riders is great, but insisting that it is somehow totally superior to everything else is silly. There are plenty of potent spells.

[Graeme Dice]

Originally posted by apoger:
Utterdark - The whole worlds income reduced by 90%!

Don't forget that any non-undead armies will have a pretty hard time even hitting your troops with attack and precision around 3.

[NTJedi]

Apoger... yes there is plenty of potent spells.

The iron dragon spell takes 25 earth gems. (5 times the cost)

Flames from Afar has the possibility of doing more damage... but only if the province is JAMMED with at least 250 units and its a powerful fire mage.

MY POINT... is that for the cost and mage level it is way too powerful.