Luck/Order scales after 2.06 Patch

[Keir Maxwell]

I'm suffering from hay fever so my brain is not working particularily well but here is my two cents (I'll spend a dollar later):

As I remember the old system was order adjusted event frequency by +-10% and luck adjusted the likelyhood of a good/bad event by +-10%.

Turmoil3/luck3 - nothing has changed has it? You get +30% on event frequency and +30% on likelyhood they are good.

Misfortune3/order3 - you now have the normal chance of events instead of -30% and there is a modifier of+30% on the chance they will be bad. Eeeck. I got hit by an earthquake second or third turn with Mictlan Last night and I didn't like it. This is not the sort of thing I want to increase the likelyhood for MP so I'm wary of this choice. Over an empire it could be disastrous and I'm not sure tests on one province mean very much because of this.

Order3/luck0 - chance of events has gone up by+15% as orders event supression has become less effective. Weaker than it used to be but more likely to be chosen.

Order0/luck3 - this has got heaps better with an extra +15% chance of events.

Order3/luck3 - this has got better but it still doesn't appeal much due to the cost and order working against the luck.

Of course more subtle options exist but thats a useful bunch to look at.

Cheap order options have got weaker, order0+ and luck stronger (should be its expensive), and turmoil/luck stayed the same. In general I think we can safely say that races in general have got weaker and so the ones who have stayed the same have got better.

Not what I was hoping for but its more balenced. I had already accepted that my order based dual bless effects races, milking misfortune for free points, were history (one or two of the best might survive without misfortune) so thats not to sad. I'm a bit dissapointed that turmoil/luck races haven't had more of a boost as I was hoping for more possibilities there to make up the loses. I'm not sure we have gained as much as we have lost in terms of race design options. Still need to have a better look.

I never felt returning to the old scales was THE answer but it could be part of the answer if high luck could guard you from devesating events - at least in your capital.

Cheers

Keir

[ January 13, 2004, 00:08: Message edited by: Keir Maxwell ]

[SurvivalistMerc]

I'm hoping that they will eventually let us mod the events. I can come up with events of my own, and I might produce a Survivalist Mod of just the luck scale and events that folks might decide they like enough to use. I think it would be fun. And I would limit the worst catastrophes to misfortune 3 such that those who want to reap points out of misfortune would want to stop at 2.

I would also generally mod up the national heroes...say double their hps and increase their defense and protection. So that luck would be desirable to get the heroes faster. As things stand now, some races get a lot more out of their heroes than others, making losing the heroes something some races can do rather cavalierly. I think that, while some heroes should be more powerful than others, even race by race, the heroes should be good enough that no race would cavalierly cast them aside but would rather realize they are making a choice with positive and negative consequences.

[Jasper]

I agree the Order scale balance is better, but still off. I actually think Luck is ok now compared to the scales other than Order; bad events are still effectively more prevalent than good ones, but that just shifts the scale so it's not zero centered.

Drop Order's economic effect down to to perhaps +/- 5% and I think it'd be fine. As it stands now Order is IMHO still clearly the "must have" thing to spend points on.

[SurvivalistMerc]

I actually think that the scales could be made such that the points which they either cost or produce are non-linear.

Turmoil could give more nation points than order costs. And the third order could be made more expensive. I guess that each person has a break-even point for all the scales.

The only thing is that not everyone's break-even point is the same. I like order and misfortune. So if I mod the scales, I might make order cost more, turmoil give more nation points, luck cost less, the heroes more powerful, and misfortune give fewer nation points. Just a thought. I'm not even sure you can mod them in this way.

My feeling is that the scales need not be balanced with respect to one another, only with respect to the total nation points they yeild.

[Keir Maxwell]

Originally posted by SurvivalistMerc:
I actually think that the scales could be made such that the points which they either cost or produce are non-linear.

I'm not even sure you can mod them in this way.

Don't think so. You can mod the effect of a scale upon the attribute of the game that it presently modifiers - ie reduce order to 5% extra tax.

I will be sticking with the existing scales structure for the War of the Ring mod - there will be enough to get used to without complicating ones understanding of race design and its impacts. I have no objection to mods that alter the existing game balence but I don't want to move that way until I have a far better understanding of dom2 than I presently do. The different but similar relationship to Dom1 have made it quite tricky for me to get a good feel as many dom1 reflexes remain.

Cheers

Keir

[Zapmeister]

I think the main issue, for me, is that the person taking Luck is not significantly luckier than the person taking Misfortune, because of the actual events.

I now agree with whoever-it-was that said that it's the events themselves, rather than the scales, that need the most attention (or words to that effect).

[SurvivalistMerc]

Zapmeister,

I think I was one of the folks who said that a while back. But I am probably not the only one to reach that conclusion.