Two new MODs from me

[Graeme Dice]

Originally posted by apoger:
Compare a temperate area (England, NE America, Japan) to the arctic. Yes people can live in the arctic, the question is how hard would it be (without mordern tech)? Compared to their fair weather friends would they produce 15% less? My mod puts it at 60%. I'm willing to stand by that.

Scandanivia is either cold 1 or 2 (Vanheim/Jotunheim). It certainly doesn't produce 40% less output per piece of land than England. Neither does Canada.

Also keep in mind that this isn't reality. It's an abstraction in a fantasy game. I don't think strong penalties for complete opposites are unjustified.

As long as part of your argument is grounded in reality, then realism always applies, or else you must simply change your argument to "There is no reason other than because I feel like it." If you wish to invoke reality for part of your explanation then it should also work for arguments against something.

Alex, I'm not arguing here.

I think I didn't know which one you pumped to 10% Just income?

IW Scales: Heat 3 Preference to Cold 3 Enviroment

-30% Gold, -60% Supplies.

AlexMod Scales

-120% Gold?, -120% Supplies? (Or -60% Supplies)?

[Graeme Dice]

Originally posted by Keir Maxwell:
Bless effects heaven - a man after my own tastes.

I love the bless effects, and I wish that spending 250 points on your pretender to get a skill of 9 from a starting point of 1 was worth as much to your race as spending 240 points on order 3 and growth 3.

The way I can see of doing this with the present mod tools is modding the pretenders to give them more-and-higher starting paths of magic while leaving their costs the same.

The basic costs for the pretenders seems about right, although I'd like to see the cyclops only cost 50-75 points.

Another approach would be to make all the scales weaker making the return from magic more appealling but I don't like this approach so much.

I don't like it as much easier.

[apoger]

>Sounds like order 3, growth 3, productivity 3, some sort of castle... and anything that's left on the god. With scales that strong I can't imagine taking any negatives or wasting points on a god.

Yes, however the problem I see now is players spending everything on their god instead of wasting points on scales.

These scales are similar to Dom1, as Keir suggested. I have never hidden that I don't like the Dom2 scales. The Dom1 scales worked just fine and weren't too extreme then, and as such really are too extreme now. Just different.

It's my feeling that this makes choices hard on the players. No easy picks like order-misfortune. No picking two 9s in magics at the cost of death-3 sloth-3 for that unimpressive 6% income hit.

My goal is not to spite gods. It's to make all choices viable and interesting. No matter what you choose, you aren't getting something else valuable, whether it's god magic or luck scale. That's what I want. Hard choices because everything is good.


Try the mod once it's available. I think you'll find it more balanced than you think. At the least, luck is now a useable scale.

[apoger]

>-30% Gold, -60% Supplies.
>AlexMod Scales
>-120% Gold?, -120% Supplies?

That's exactly the situation.
An abysian army in the arctic needs to bring food.

[Keir Maxwell]

Originally posted by Graeme Dice:
As long as part of your argument is grounded in reality, then realism always applies, or else you must simply change your argument to "There is no reason other than because I feel like it."

I'm very sympathetic to this argument but would put it a bit different. As a large part of the game is fantasy combined with the fact that our understanding of reality is only partial alot of the time we are not talking about realistic so much as plausible. You can come up with extremely different worlds to ours were things work very differently as long as there are plausible explanations for things. A Ring world is one example of this. The thing you should avoid is abandoning reaoson and just saying well this is like that because this is how I feel it should be. Godo fantasy is very believable and has an internal logic which strengthens all the elements.

I believe there is always a place for reason in determining what the realism of your fantasy enironment is. As fantasy environments are inspired by historical societies and their myths and legends it is history we draw much from - but also our understanding of geography, physics chemistry - of people, the world, and how it all works.

Cheers

Keir

[apoger]

>Scandanivia is either cold 1 or 2 (Vanheim/Jotunheim). It certainly doesn't produce 40% less output per piece of land than England.

A> Cold-1 would be 20% with my mod.

B> I'd say the Vikings would disagree with you on the farming versus raiding/migrating to England example.

Without modern technologies life in the cold pretty much sucked. Yes people lived in the cold, but not the massively productive ones. The great empires didn't rise from the desert either. There's a reason for this.