Why doesn't Arco have Phalangites (Pikemen) ?

[Kristoffer O]

Originally posted by Saber Cherry:

quote:

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Originally posted by Wauthan:
Pike is apparently not two handed. The new mod for Ulm sports a commander wielding a pike and shield.

...but that's a mistake. I believe the commander is suppsed to have a broadsword.

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True.

[Keir Maxwell]

Good stuff PDF.

You can give a unit a two handed weapon and a shield - you just shouldn't normally.

Selucid (and Macedonian) pikes were very definitly two handed weapons of much greater length than than 8-10 footers habitually used by Hopilites. However it was possible to fight using a two handed pike in rigid formation while having a shield slung over your shoulder (not a big one) and your arm through the grip but still holding the pike shaft. Another example of somehting similar is Varangian Guardsmen and Anglo Danish Huskarls of whom we have accounts fighting with a two handed axe and a kite shield hung over the in such a fashion that they could maintian it in a useful position while atrtakcing in a reptitive downward chopping motion operating in close order.

Selucid Kataphracts varied in morale and equipment and if you want a rough break down of the different unit catergories (Companions, Agema, Line Cavalry) let me know.

cheers

Keir

[ January 18, 2004, 02:01: Message edited by: Keir Maxwell ]

[PDF]

Well, thanks to all for the interest !

Phalangites : KO (I mean Kristoffer ), if I use long 1H spear, my phalangite will only be an under-hoplite and not have much interest... I'd rather give them a "real" 2H pike and buff their armor somewhat (chainmail hauberk ?) to give them a decent prot.

About the graphics I really suck at that and don't event know how to change colors to an image without ruining the background, so I definitely need help ..

Cavalry : looking at the current unit what I think is that overall, the Arco HC need an improved, high morale unit to represent Agema/Companions, and maybe another "medium cav" Lancer unit (meant for shock and not too much expensive, in fact it could be a cool unit). The current LC looks Ok (crappy as all LC but OK...).
Keir, I have some material, but be happy to discuss equipement issues

As soon as I manage to find some time I'd post my units stats

[Pocus]

there is a length 6 pike in Ulm BF, if its of interest to you

[Kristoffer O]

The lancers and cavalry of the greek era did not use stirrups used by knights and HC of later times. The lance was released upon impact as the rider prefered to stay mounted.

Therefore the arcoscephalean cav do not have lances but spears. On the other hand they might deserve elite medium cavalry such as the Agema.

[Jasper]

True about the stirrups, although that was because nobody had thought of them. Once exposed to stirrups it's not unthinkable that elite units such as Companions might also adopt their use. I always found it strange that indepdent Heavy Cavalry was better than what seemed intended to parallel Alexander's Companions -- arguably the most powerfull military unit of it's day.

Then again, Arcoscephale already has good troops, and doesn't exactly need the boost. It may be better if they have no cavalry (or equivalently, cavalry so bad nobody uses it).

[PDF]

Originally posted by Kristoffer O:
The lancers and cavalry of the greek era did not use stirrups used by knights and HC of later times. The lance was released upon impact as the rider prefered to stay mounted.

Therefore the arcoscephalean cav do not have lances but spears. On the other hand they might deserve elite medium cavalry such as the Agema.

Yep, I know..
I'm testing my Phalangites - and am amazed at how modding Dom2 is a breeze ! .
But I gave them a Long Spear, you convinced me of that choice K.O... So Hoplites are to get "downgraded" to vanilla Spears - and I'm sure that this will make hordes of players yell and wish my death !

As for cavalry I'd make 2 things :
* Give better armor to the spear-armed (no bow) Lt Cav, pretty useless now, as a kind of Medium cavalry.
* And create a new Agema Hvy Cav, marginally better equipped than the standard Arco HC *but* with a much better morale.
BTW, how to mod it to be capitol-only ?

In the end Arco Cav still won't be that good, but at least usable ...

Feedback *and* cool tga's for my Agema appreciated