Dominions Ice Age Contest

[Saber Cherry]

Ok, I changed the stuff around a bit... haven't deleted anything yet=)

Edit: Relocated replies from CherryMod thread (which will be retained for modding vanilla Dominions). Hope you don't mind, Wauthan!

Originally posted by Wauthan:
Summoning Icedrakes and elementals sounds pretty tough. Maybe if the mages ran a risk of being attacked by something nasty?

Perhaps you could make a Caelum Version of R'lyeh summoning gate? The evercold portal could summon a variety of cold theme creatures with a chance of the mage getting attacked or getting diseased (catching a cold?).

And changing Air to Water will allow them to enter water provinces a lot sooner. Something to keep in mind perhaps.

I want more animal summoning spells.
Claws of winter, 2 nature 1 water 1 air: Summons cold theme beasties.
Waters Call: 3 water 1 nature: Summons water animals like whales, sharks and squids.
Fangs of the Desert, 2 nature 1 earth 1 fire: Summons the likes of snakes, scorpions, camels and vultures.

Perhaps it's because I'm a biologist but an army of animals is too cool to ignore.

Originally posted by Wauthan:
...making (stone plate and wood laminar plate) armor means that they are not exactly on stoneage level of technology and it sort of looses it's prehistory feel.

Making worthwhile armor of such brittle and bulky materials would be a challenge even for the tools of today. And your mod shows that they are well on par with steel armor. But perhaps it's in comparison with the weapons of the time? One could of course jump in and say "it's magic materials" in a fantasy setting but it's sort of stretching it.

Armor made out of skins, furs and bones don't offer nearly the same protection but they are much lighter and would be fast enough to produce to equip a small army.

-Cherry

[ January 19, 2004, 22:16: Message edited by: Saber Cherry ]

[Unwise]

First, I think this is a cool idea. I have a concept I might work on.

But am I missing something? I thought that items modding was not implemented yet.

[Saber Cherry]

Originally posted by Unwise:
First, I think this is a cool idea. I have a concept I might work on.

But am I missing something? I thought that items modding was not implemented yet.

That's correct, item modding is not supported. But it will be before this mod is finished. In the meantime, my combat sim supports item modding, if you want to test the strength of hypothetical items...


Some sample Ice Age indy units:

New Unit:
IA Warrior (Base creature: IA Human)

HP: 11 Str: 11
Prot: 6 Att: 10
Mrl: 10 Def: 11
Mrst: 10 Prec: 10
Enc: 4 AP: 11

Weapons: Wood Club
Items: Oak Shield, Ash Slat Cuirass, Wood Helmet

Gold: 10 Res: 5

*********************************

New Unit:
IA Neanderthal Warrior (Base creature: IA Neanderthal)

HP: 13 Str: 12
Prot: 7 Att: 8
Mrl: 11 Def: 9
Mrst: 9 Prec: 9
Enc: 4 AP: 9

Weapons: Bone Club, Bone Club
Items: Bone Hauberk, Bone Helmet

Gold: 10 Res: 10

*********************************

New Unit:
IA Abysian Inf Axe (Base creature: Abysian)

HP: 15 Str: 13
Prot: 12 Att: 10
Mrl: 11 Def: 6
Mrst: 12 Prec: 7
Enc: 6 AP: 7

Resistances:

Fire: 100 Cold: 0
Shock: 0 Poison: 0

Heat 4

Weapons: Obsidian Axe
Items: Bone Buckler, Full Ceramic Mail, Ceramic Cap

Gold: 20 Res: 20

*********************************

-Cherry

P.S. I noticed that low armor values will make Ice Age units die in droves. I think I'll have to lower the base gold prices=)

[ January 19, 2004, 23:12: Message edited by: Saber Cherry ]

[undead dolphin hacker]

Though it's right off the top of my head, why not include an Ermor variant which is "pre-fall?" Perhaps they could be one of the ones with access to bronze? I say that only because I envision pre-fall Ermor to be Golden-Age Romanesque.

PROS:
-Extremely well-armed troops (ie, Bronze), at least, in comparison to the competition.
-Favors (and is effective with) "basic" tactics--skirmishers in the front or flanks, heavier troops in the center who hold & attack.
-Disciplined, high-morale troops.
-Extremely strong high-level mages.

CONS:
-Weak, if any, missle units.
-Middling priests and few holy units (symbolizes the growing cleft between the church/mages and the state).
-Extremely high gold/resource unit costs (at least, in relation to the other Ice Age races).
-Bronze-clad units are significantly slower than most fielded troops in this period.

And finally, some OTHER ideas:

-Ermor's mages could/should be extremely high-powered, but actually decrease the number of supplies availible to the province they're in--think Nature magic's supply bonus, except in the negative direction. This would symbolize the growing corruption of Ermor's magick.

-Ermor's provincial defense could/should be more expensive than normal.

[EDIT: Fixed terminology.]

[ January 20, 2004, 00:32: Message edited by: undead dolphin hacker ]

[Saber Cherry]

Originally posted by undead dolphin hacker:
Though it's right off the top of my head, why not include an Ermor variant which is "pre-fall?" Perhaps they could be one of the ones with access to bronze? I say that only because I envision pre-fall Ermor to be Golden-Age Romanesque.

Excellent ideas! I didn't consider it at all, but obviously Pythium and Ermor should be united - or else, Pythium would be identical to Ermor, a rebel contigent. Hmmm. I think C'tis and Jotunheim should be the death-Users (C'tis taught Ermor Death magic), and Marignon, Pythium, and Ermor should either be united (called Ermor) or else very similar. Marignon wouldn't really be necessary... it could be an Ice Age Ermor subtheme Or else just a slot for a completely new nation.

-Cherry

[undead dolphin hacker]

If you wanted to keep Pythium, they could be similar to Ermor in low-level units (like Velites, Legionaries (sp?)) but lack the intensely high-morale, heavy infantry that I envision defining IA Ermor.

Lemme make a quick Pythium list so I don't keep rambling:

IA Pythium::

PROS:
-Bronze nation with low-end "cheap" units second only to Ermor's.
-Extremely cheap scouts and assassins, both of which with respectable leadership values (default 15 or 20).
-Cheap provincial defense (peasants pissed off with Ermor aren't hard to find or train.)
-A strong, average-priced, though somewhat inaccurate ranged unit. (Possibly with Stealth?)
-At least one fast, but lightly-armored, ground troop with Stealth.
-Most Pythium troops are quicker than their Ermor counterparts (on par with other IA races--maybe a smidgen slower).

CONS:
-"Military" leaders are neither strong nor cheap, Leadership values don't start very high (25-30?).
-Magic is roughly half as powerful as Ermor's (all the powerful mages figured they'd stay in the well-established Ermor).
-Like Ermor, few Holy units and middling priests (Pythium disagrees with Ermor more on a political level than religious).
-"Basic" tactics aren't very effective for Pythium at all--from a statistical standpoint, Pythium's military is pretty weak.
-Morale is middling to weak, depending on the unit.

"WOULD BE COOL" FEATURES:

-Pythium assassins and scouts can "Levy Malcontents" in any province with NEGATIVE or NEUTRAL dominion--this ability is much like Mictlan's "Levy Slaves", except the produced unit is more powerful, (after all, they're taking volunteer fighters, not enslaving them), and Stealthy (it'd be no better than "Create Unrest" if they immediately attacked. By using "Levy Malcontents," unrest in the province is increased on a level equal to another Scout/Assassin's "Create Unrest" mission. ADDENDUM--if possible from a mod standpoint, it'd be cool if higher Unrest = more levied Malcontents.

-Pythium attempts to "Create Unrest" in a province are 150% more effective than the normal value.

-Pythium armies which are "Sneaking" are only 50% as big as they actually are when it comes to determining whether a provincial defense or patrolling army detects them.

-Pythium armies which are "Sneaking" are 25% harder to detect than average sneaking forces.

COMMENTS:

My vision of IA Pythium is a struggling rebel faction. Ermor has not fallen, if anything, it's reached the height of its power. When Ermor and Pythium are both in a game together, it is assumed that the rebel Pythium faction has just been detected by Ermorian inquisitors, and is thus an identified threat. Pythium keeps Ermor's "cheapo" units--the average grunt at this time is no better and no more loyal than the average mercenary--but loses what makes IA Ermor IA Ermor--the badass heavy infantry.

Instead, Pythium gets weaker, but more versatile, units. March them against most races in man-on-man combat, and you'll lose. Pythium is extremely weak when one plays "chicken" with your opponent's army. IA Pythium is, obviously, a rogueish nation. Use those powerful, if innacurate, (though what ranged unit isn't in the Ice Age?), ranged units for raids and surprise assassinations. Buy up cheap Scouts and Assassins, cause unrestful havoc in the enemy's back yard, then make armies out of 'em if they don't respond fast enough. Fight head-on when you have to, but win through stealth, strategy, and tactics--not sheer force.

[EDIT: Because I spel gud.]

[ January 20, 2004, 01:22: Message edited by: undead dolphin hacker ]

[Keir Maxwell]

If we are talking really Ice Age then I would have though Abysians and C'tis would need to be drastically different as its just too cold for them. Abysia could live underneath the surface perhaps where rivers of Lava raise the temperature.

The nations should probably feel tribal rather than nations in the main. If they still do have something decribable as a nation then this could be a reflection of a very organised, disciplined, response to the Ice Age. I think you would want none of the nations to bear more than a passing similarity to present nations.

As the game will see the development of grand empires, not normally what happens in an Ice Age, it might make sense to set the game at the end of a period of Ice Age with whoevers God wins gets to decide the conditions in the next period - if its Caelum then its more Ice, Man, Pangaea etc then the greening of the world begins while if its abysia then the Lava rivers spout forth as volcanos light the horizens and the world is roasted beneath the fiery light of great sun.



Keir