Unit Spreadsheet

[Uh-Nu-Buh]

Has anyone compiled a list of units/stats? I'd like to do some analysis of Jotunheim, but don't care to waste time compiling data if it has already been done. Something like:

neutral units
jotun units
abysia units

e.g.

heavy infantry: gold/res/supplies/att/def/armor/mvmnt/etc.

[Gandalf Parker]

the closest thing is a game where you can see all the units.
http://www.freewebs.com/sunray_dom2/

[Saber Cherry]

Sunray actually has some national unit spreadsheets as well.

[Uh-Nu-Buh]

Thanks--there are spreadsheets for several of the races on this site. Exactly what I wanted!

I will check their veracity first--as they are based on Dom I. Then I will analyse the Jotunn as compared to the generic units (militia, light infantry, heavy infantry, archers, lt cav, hv cav, etc.). I have a sneaking suspicion that they are more trouble than they are worth.... E.g. hv inf vs. jotun axeman: 3Xhits, 2Xst, 50% more armor, 30% more morale, 2Xcost in rp, 4Xcost in gold. I think that morale is the killer. If you have 1/4'th the units, then each one dying is that much harder on morale. If morale fails, then all the units run away. I think having 4X as many units will make for a less cowardly army, but I will have to check it.

[Arryn]

Having played Jotun extensively (the first race I tried in Dom 2) I can tell you that each Jot spearman or huskarl is worth at least 3-4x any mere human troop. Do not discount that 3x hits, 2x str, 1.5x armor, 1.3x morale. The way it works is thus:

• the giants and humans crash together
• humans inflict minor damage on giants, which doesn't bother them much (more hits and better armor)
• giants each kill a human in one blow (high strength)
• repeat, until humans rout after 2-3 turns of such exchanges (human morale is dropping due to losses far faster than giant morale, and humans will break sooner due to the lower morale they start with)
• you will typically come out of such a battle with no losses to your giants whatsoever.

Jot (and R'lyeh) simply plow through independents very quickly in the early, crucial stages of the game. You just have to be careful to avoid engaging more than 3x the numbers of your own troops, unless you have strong magical support.

[ January 20, 2004, 01:37: Message edited by: Arryn ]

[Saber Cherry]

Jotun has level 3 priests, so they can cast sermon of courage. But what Arryn says is true - protection does not scale like other stats, which means the change in strength is huge.

Running the combat sim:

'JO Hirdman' versus 'Heavy Inf Chain' in 40000 bouts.

~ Attacker's Deathmatch Statistics ~

Score: ---------------------- 999
Wins: ----------------------- 99.99%
Losses: --------------------- .02%
Kills per battle: ----------- 1.00
Kills per round: ------------ .45
Deaths per battle: ---------- .01
Life expectancy (rounds): --- INF
Life expectancy (battles): -- 4999.78
Avg. Rounds Elapsed: -------- 2.27
Avg. Rounds to Win: --------- 2.27
Avg. Rounds to Lose: -------- 4.29
Hit Rate: ------------------- 49.96%
Evade Rate: ----------------- 73.37%
Repel Rate: ----------------- 28.40%
Damage done per swing: ------ 7.55
Damage done per hit: -------- 15.10
Damage taken per hit: ------- 2.71
Total damage taken per life: 4938.38

'JO Hirdman' versus '4*Heavy Inf Chain' in 40000 bouts.

~ Attacker's Deathmatch Statistics ~

Score: ---------------------- 898
Wins: ----------------------- 89.85%
Losses: --------------------- 10.16%
Kills per battle: ----------- 3.75
Kills per round: ------------ .52
Deaths per battle: ---------- .11
Life expectancy (rounds): --- 71.13
Life expectancy (battles): -- 9.78
Avg. Rounds Elapsed: -------- 7.28
Avg. Rounds to Win: --------- 7.42
Avg. Rounds to Lose: -------- 6.07
Hit Rate: ------------------- 57.55%
Evade Rate: ----------------- 64.84%
Repel Rate: ----------------- 31.29%
Damage done per swing: ------ 8.91
Damage done per hit: -------- 15.48
Damage taken per hit: ------- 2.82
Total damage taken per life: 129.66


So. A hirdman does an average of 15 damage per hit, and takes around 2.5 damage per hit. And 90% of the time he beats 4 of the heaviest independant infantry, assuming nobody routs. It takes 6 HI to usually beat the Hirdman, which is 60 gold, 120 resources, and 6 supply versus 40 gold, 34 resources, and 3 supply.

Morale is a terrible problem with Jotun militia - they always rout when they could actually win. But the jotun elites, backed by Godes, do quite well.

-Cherry

P.S. Note that the Hirdman is bugged - he's supposed to wear Chain, like the other heavy Jotun units.

[Arryn]

Originally posted by Saber Cherry:
Morale is a terrible problem with Jotun militia - they always rout when they could actually win. But the jotun elites, backed by Godes, do quite well.

Morale is the main reason why I build Jotun Huskarls (spear) and Jotun Spearmen, exclusively. The spears, while doing less damage than axes, are useful for repel. I've noticed that my spear-carriers tend to outLast my axemen.

I command the troops with Jarls, until I have expanded enough (20-25 turns) to have excess cash and can then justify buying Godes. Plus the Jarls can command more troops. I have no use for Herses. I prefer sacred commanders, which can also build temples in a pinch.

My mages sit at home and research, research, research (occasionally making research-boosting items as my gem income permits) until I reach a point (about turn 40-50) when I begin to run out of things I think are worth the effort to study. At which point I begin to crank out combat items and/or send the mages out with troops of their own to assist the Jarls/Godes at my borders.

As for the pretender? I use the Son of Niefel. I mainly use him as a mage, but also as a SC as needed.

Please bear in mind that I have zero experience in playing Dom in MP. But the above technique has worked quite well for me in SP. YMMV.

My 2gp worth.


Cheers!

[onomastikon]

Originally posted by Gandalf Parker:
the closest thing is a game where you can see all the units.
http://www.freewebs.com/sunray_dom2/

Excuse me, I tried that link on Sunray's page, and I got this,
http://www.freewebs.com/sunray_dom2/UnitView.map
a really really long page of html (?) or sometihng I dont understand. Is this supposed to be downloadable or do I need to be a computer person to understand what to do with that?
thanks

[Arryn]

Originally posted by onomastikon:
Excuse me, I tried that link on Sunray's page, and I got this,
http://www.freewebs.com/sunray_dom2/UnitView.map
a really really long page of html (?) or sometihng I dont understand. Is this supposed to be downloadable or do I need to be a computer person to understand what to do with that?
thanks

Try right-clicking on the link from your browser and select the option from the pop-up menu that says "save link target as". Then download the file to someplace appropriate. If you have further questions feel free to PM me.

Originally posted by Uh-Nu-Buh:
I will check their veracity first--as they are based on Dom I.

All "nations" DB are based on Dom2. I'm currently working on a large update, after the new patch. Please wait 24h before downloading and checking all the stuff so you'll get the latest Version.
And yes, please, LMK if you find any mistake !
Cheers