Improving the Arena Death Match event

[General Tacticus]

Originally posted by Zen:
Alright. I'm trying to understand the argument of "Much more reward for the risk"

You get a weapon and can't change it out yes. But winning the Event gets you.

Quickness (the best 'ability' out there)
and 4 Stars of Experience (if they started with none) and a good percentage of the time a place in the HoF (if they were not in it already) so a HoF ability.

That is +4 Att, +4 Def, +4 Prec ...

I don't know if I want an event that has a reward so good that if I don't throw my pretender at it, that I have drastically weakened my position. As it is, the winner can pick an already decent supercombatant and put him in the Arena and have him come out even better and potentially much harder to kill.

If he had Sacred, or Always Blessed (like a Prophet) even better, but I don't think a big pile of gems or gold would be an answer for it.

Well, for a start, that weapon is stuck on your commander, and replaces anything he might already have. It also forces you to go into the next arena.

But the real reason I never send anyone is that to win, you have to beat the AI's favorite SC. And I play at impossible, which means they have had extra design points to build them, and there are 16 of them to beat. Believe me, nothing short of a very well designed SC (or a very, very lucky, tough prophet that gets only fight against banishable pretenders) is going to win against them, and usually I don't have one on hand (I don't use SC pretenders). Even if I did, he'd have to be decked in something as good or better than the trident, and he could make xp (and kills) quite easily with no risk on the battlefields....
Anyway, I don't even have to send him to see most of the AIs SC die : there can be only one winner

Of course, that's solo play against 16 impossible AI's. I am sure MP play against two human opponents (or easy AIs) is far different.

I send the best (unequipped) commander I can spare. Usually the nation equivalent of a Knight, who can sometimes get the drop against a powering up SC and kill him. But I have never come even close to winning.

The reward is good, yes. But to have a fair chance of winning I have to risk a lot more. The reward is just nor worth it...

[Wendigo]

I always send someone to the Arena, and I am talking multiplayer here.

The Arena is one of those small details in the game that add to the fun & immersion, it doesn't need any boosting with game-wining rewards.

[General Tacticus]

Originally posted by Wendigo:
I always send someone to the Arena, and I am talking multiplayer here.

The Arena is one of those small details in the game that add to the fun & immersion, it doesn't need any boosting with game-wining rewards.

I try to send at least a scout. I always look at the battle replays. I cheer while the AIs lose their pretenders stupidly.
But there is a problem when the human players are not even trying to win, only (sometimes) to curse/horror mark the AI. Either the AI must learn to reevaluate the reward (and stop sending pretenders when the mortality rate is around 80% for them in the Arena), or the reward must be boosted so the one that does survive really gets a leg up. Right now, for me, the Arena is a "Watch 3 AI pretenders die, laughing all the while" event.
One problem is that the prize must
- not be completely unbalancing when won on turn 3
- have any kind of worth on turn 40, when I'm already forging artifacts at a large discount...

I think that :
- Pretenders should be Banned from the Arena. Gods, or would-be Gods, have no business slugging it out for the amusement of mortals. And defeat would be far too embarassing for them to risk.
- The prize should bear some relation to the level of opposition, and the advancement of the game. For example, a gold prize equal to the gold value of every unit that was defeated in the arena (or part of that value), and/or the winner's choice of three magical items that belonged to the defeated ones, to be sent directly to the lab...

I agree that the arena adds dimension. It probably works fine in multiplayer (although in 17 mp game there will be a lot of competition and only one winner, but the same prize). But in SP, it's just a AI trap, and not because the player always win; in fact, he never does...

[ January 23, 2004, 10:35: Message edited by: General Tacticus ]

In reality the games I play don't Last much longer than 60+ turns. It's a rare game that Lasts beyond this, even in MP.

So the most I usually see this event is 2 or 3 times. At each stage in the game, that the trident is availiable there is always a reason for someone in my army to have that trident and experiance and possible ousting of someone out of the HoF.

It must just be my 'non SP' mentality as far as the event. While I enjoy them, I don't want the event to have such a dramatic impact on the game in multiple ways. It's enough for me that whoever wins gets unit enhancements as such.

Though it may be that you could upgrade the Trident as the tourny progresses. Have it gain a "On Hit" ability as the game progresses. I wouldn't mind the top end Trident having Life Drain. I'm sure someone would throw good units at the opportunity to have a Quickness, Lifedraining weapon especially late in the game.

[Saxon]

There is one more reward factor that has not been discussed. If you win, you deny the prize to your opponents. The value of this does depend on how you value the prize in the first place, but if you can stop one of your opponents getting an All Star and ensure you get it instead, it is value added.

Certain races are better suited to this than others. Jotun and Vanheim seem to make a mash out of me.

Does anyone know what happens if you use the bodyguard ring or if you have units on guard commander? It would be a bug if it allowed them in, but it might be worth checking.

[General Tacticus]

Originally posted by Saxon:
There is one more reward factor that has not been discussed. If you win, you deny the prize to your opponents.

They do a fine job denying it to each other : after all, only one in 16 win it

The value of this does depend on how you value the prize in the first place, but if you can stop one of your opponents getting an All Star and ensure you get it instead, it is value added.

Ah, but I can't !! Against impossible AIs, the only way I can see to win it would be to make a SC pretender of my own, spend a few turns decking him in good magic items, and anyway he won't get the special ability from the hall of fame, and he stands a good chance of losing...
Of course, in MP, the problem is different, since I am not up against rabid AIs recklessly sending their steroid-enhanced pretender

Certain races are better suited to this than others. Jotun and Vanheim seem to make a mash out of me.

Yes, on the rare occasion when a pretender does not win, a prophet from Jotunheim, Vanheim or Man is usually the winner

Does anyone know what happens if you use the bodyguard ring or if you have units on guard commander? It would be a bug if it allowed them in, but it might be worth checking.

It doesn't work...

[NTJedi]

Yes the trident and experience are nice... but certainly not worth risking the life of a good commander.

Hopefully gems and/or gold and/or one of the other suggestions listed previously will be added to the reward of the arena.

Think of the long term events of attending 5 death match arenas. Even if you win 3 times... it means that you had 2 good commanders die! Having a good commander die is not worth the price of that trident... something more needs to be added to the arena prize.