Last question (I hope) on magic learning strategies (Machaka or similar multi-path)?

[Nagot Gick Fel]

Originally posted by Zen:
Definitely look at heavy order and production scales and magic are all very nice.

I agree on order and production, but magic 0/+1 is good enough for me, as buying more gives diminishing returns:

scale - RP cost - delta (assuming Witch Doctor)
-3 ...... 45 ......
-2 ...... 30 ...... (-15)
-1 ...... 22.5 .... (-7.5)
+0 ...... 18 ...... (-4.5)
+1 ...... 15 ...... (-3)
+2 ...... 12.85 ... (-2.25)
+3 ...... 11.25 ... (-1.6)
++ ...... 10 ...... (-1.25)

It's even slightly worse when you factor in experience (shift the costs a row down to get the RP cost for a 1-star WD).

[onomastikon]

Hey thanks for all of these tips.

Before I read Windreaper's post (and the later ones), I went ahead and tried a new game, with ok success up till now.

Obviously I do not grasp the importance of the scales yet, but perhaps later.

I went with a Ghost King, and made a good searcher (4 death, 4 earth, 4 nature, 4 fire, 2 water), 2 heat scales and 1 magic. I went with the 2 water perhaps for a stupid Idea, will see how it turns out: there is a Very Powerful Item, I think it is called the Water bracelet, which only costs 5 gems and req. 1 water skill, gives +1 water. With one of these on my pretender or two on a Black Sorc with a Skull of Fire (if he has random water), they can forge a Staff of the Elements (+1 all elements), which I can give to a witchdoctor to let him forge the Flame Helmet. Then my casters can stop researching and join a battle, if my nation survives that long.
I am going for high construction and alteration, middle conjuration and evokation.
Also, water works ok with some alteration and early evocation spells I think.

Well, I am sure it will be much different than I plan (so far havent found any water sites!), and I will try a new game perhaps with some of Windreaper's suggestions. But maybe I would try a Greath Mother instead of PoD. Also, I just sort of *like* the spiders. Maybe they are not so great, I just sort of like the big hunters. And they get nice bless effects with my 4 4s.

Well thanks for listening anyway.

[Jasper]

The best bless effect I've found for the Hunter Spiders is Earth 9. This gives them protection 26, and means the never tire.

[Humer]

One huge thing, which hasn't cropped up yet: Machaka can make use of Fever Fetishes off the box! Best path to fire gemmity goodness:
- Black Sorceror forges Earth boots (skip, if random was Earth)
- Black Sorceror forges Dwarven hammer
- Someone summons an undead commander, since they don't give a rats @$$ about diseases.
- Witch Doctor w/ D-Hammer hammers away Fever Fetishes a-plenty (req. Fire-1, Nature-1).
- Fever Fetish goes to an undead commander. Black Servants work best (stealth).
- Remember to harvest (F7->pool(fire gems))

Cost to start this is quite a bit (in gems) but I find it *very* worthwhile, especially after recruiting indy-alchemist and forging the Alchemists' Stone

Dwarven hammer should be used. Really.

- Humer

[Windreaper]

Humer: that sort of goes without saying but is a good point anyway. I admit that I turn quite a hefty amount of the fire gems to cash, too but most of the time I just go to town with Flames/Fires from the sky or build some phoenix rods instead (incinerate = best fire combat spell). Those work especially well against all kinds of big monsies, mass protected ulm troops etc. Also, tested a 4-air Virtue design today and would heartily recommend it for Machaka, too. You actually get the same scales as w/ PoD.

As for Hunter Spiders, I'm still not a big fan of them. Just too easy to take out with magic to be worth the investment. Actually, I find that the mages are Machaka's real strength. I mostly build Hoplites (damn these troops are cool) with some shortbows thrown in with 'fire at archers' to take out longbows/crossbows. Later in the game just mass protect your hoplites for prot 23, have plenty of black sorcerers casting magma eruption and use relief to make their fatigue go away.

Also, tested a 4-air Virtue design today and would heartily recommend it for Machaka, too. You actually get the same scales as w/ PoD.

SHHHHHHHH. That was my secret!

[customer717]

I tried machaka Last night and was doing okay with them, but their province defense was killing me. It did not seem to matter if I had a PD of 1 or a PD of 30, they got destroyed by anything. The low defense and zero protection is a killer. How do you guys keep enemies out of your territory with these guys?