No one does it like the Bull...

Saber Cherry · #1 January 29th, 2004, 05:30 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Chris Byler:
It'd be pretty expensive to get either bull to Earth 8, though. You don't really need that much Earth just to cast Invulnerability, so unless you're getting it for your national sacred troops, I'd go with no more than 4 Earth 6 Nature.

No, 8 Earth is just for the +8 protection (7+5+8=20 once he berserks). That lets you start taking indies from turn 1, on an indy strength of 7. Though it's much safer to wait for regeneration.

Jasper · #2 January 29th, 2004, 06:28 AM

Arcoscephale's Shedu is also similar.

General Tacticus · #3 January 29th, 2004, 08:09 AM

I once was playing Ulm, and Pythium had a white bull. Poor thing kept diing against my armies. Each time, it was the fatigue that did it, I think he had acquired a chest wound somewhere. Anyway, better give him a reinvigoration item, or don't ever attack large armies, because once he is tired he becomes a sitting hamburger...

Wauthan · #4 January 29th, 2004, 12:54 PM

It might seem really odd but the most successful combat pretender I made, so far, was a plain Ancient Kraken.

The thing just would not die. Since it didn't have any picks in magic I recklessly send it in to duke it out with independants and enemies alike. Indep set to 9 nonetheless. With whatever few units it could recruit in the province previous it expanded the empire faster than I could defend it. After a while I gave it an amulet of airbreathing and sent it onto dry land where it fared even better due to the lack of angry "teleporting" tritons.

Eventually it did die, going up against a cadre of heavy cavalery, but with so many priests around it jumped right back two turns later. With such a cheap pretender I could afford very good scales.

Never eat squid again!

ywl · #5 January 29th, 2004, 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jasper:
Arcoscephale's Shedu is also similar.

Yeah. I missed that. It shows I don't play Arco often

.

It's probably even more powerful with the ethereal, luck and invulnerability combo. Though you'd want a "Ring of Regeneration" to go with it and some higher Astral to prevent a quick kill from "Magic Duel". All these together might make him a bit too pricy to risk in frontline.

NTJedi · #6 January 29th, 2004, 09:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by olaf73:
Anyway, what other combat pretenders are similar to, or better than the Great White Bull?

olaf [/QB]

The immortal pretenders can go into battle... die and not take any losses to their magic as long as their candle is in the province.
The bull is a strong monster but can only use miscelaneous items.
Also by mid and late game it's almost always better to keep your pretender hidden from the enemy/battles to stay away from the mages/items that will horror mark, curse, blind, cast nightmare or some other nasty attack.

Jasper · #7 January 29th, 2004, 09:56 PM

I agree, the Shedu's Astral makes him in practice too expensive, especially considering he can't use most items and so is only effective early on. Unfortunately his relatively low 9 protection also hambers him early, until you've researched at least Iron Skin. IMHO the Shedu is impotent and expensive.

Luck and Body Ethereal are nice, but those can be cast on you by another mage, or easily attained through items. Astral Shield is quite nice however (especially since Paralyzation is broken!), although I'm not sure whether Astral Weapon works with Trampling.

If the Shedu cost 100 and had Air instead of Astral, it might be ok. It would be much cheaper without the need to invest in high Astral, and stronger by adding access to Mist Form, Mirror Image, and Resist Lightning.