Item wish list?

[PvK]

Agreed. MOM had tons of balance issues, bugs and AI weaknesses, and the magic items were probably one of them. Another advantage of Dominions items not being free-form-creatable (besides balance issues) is that they are well-chosen in interesting and appropriate ways that make sense have have a history (or comedy, or mystery) to them. It was sort of fun in MOM to be able to put the same spell on every picture, but it also detracted from the meaningfulness of the images, since they generally meant next to nothing - an impressive-looking item could do nothing impressive and/or nothing related to what it looked like, or could look the same as a completely different item, even though they both looked unique, etc.

Anyway, modding items would be great. The current items are very diverse and well done, but more are of course always welcome, assuming they're carefully made and balanced, like the existing ones.

As for nation-specific items, they are nice, and would be fun to be able to mod in new ones. Ermor has a laurel (which for some reason, other nations can make but not use?), and Mictlan has a jade knife, but I think that's available to others as well.

I was thinking it'd be interesting to mod in some more national items, even if just generic ones like giving everyone Versions of the magic trinket and armor items that match their national equipment and/or theme - magic spathas, pikes, greco helmets and round shields for Arco, magic obsidian swords for Mictlan, etc etc etc, all pretty tame and based on the existing items and existing difference in generic items.

Not that I've got around to using anywhere near all of the existing items...

PvK

[Norfleet]

I wouldn't say MOM had balance issues: There wasn't any multiplayer, and as such, it's hard to say anything is balanced or unbalanced. By that analogy, everyone would agree that Ashen Empire is way overpowered, because it steamrolls over the AI every time. Of course, Dom2 has multiplayer, and the overwhelming AI dominance of AE simply doesn't appear against humans who have any idea how to play.

Dominions 2 does a much better job overall than MOM, though: Master of Magic had a fair number of thoroughly useless spells and items, whereas in Dominions, everything does SOMETHING useful for somebody.

[PvK]

Well yes, that's what I meant. If you define balance as multiplayer human balance, well that's not what I meant by balance. As you mentioned, MOM (without 3rd party hacks) was single-player only, and the AI wasn't good enough to offer much challenge to a player who figured out what some of the more powerful techniques were, and who didn't prevent himself from using them. So yes, you could say that rather than being unbalanced, the AI just wasn't programmed to be able to compete against a human who had learned tricks. That's true of essentially any very complex game, and it becomes a matter of degree (how long it takes players to learn strategies the AI can't counter; in my case I don't think I ever actually lost any game against the MOM AI). Perhaps you could even claim MOM was balanced, because every choice of human nation could be used to wipe out the AI.

Naturally, there are different ways to define balance. (Edit: Another way to put it - there are different types of balance.) Ability to steamroller the AI using certain fairly simple techniques, and relative impotence of a large number of game features are a couple of them. Those were what I was referring to.

If you could play MOM multi-player, though (and yes a couple of 3rd party hacks allow this), there might be many interesting choices of nation and strategy which could be balanced and interesting to play against each other.

PvK

[ February 03, 2004, 23:09: Message edited by: PvK ]

[Norfleet]

A couple of third party hacks did manage to enable multiplayer capability, but I don't think they ever overcame in the inability of a defending player to actually control his forces....so basically, the attacker always won, and defense was totally worthless. It tended to strongly distort the game in favor of making sure your units were able to disappear before being attacked at all. All in all, I wouldn't say that the multiplayer hacks did anything to demonstrate balance or lack thereof. While it's true that MOM had a fair number of humorous ways to abuse the AI, the Dominions II AI is just as susceptible to various abusive techniques that fail easily against humans.

Although at least Dominions II doesn't have the 13-book Free Infinite Monster flash mob summoner. Still, for a single player game....balance, schmalance.

[ February 04, 2004, 00:50: Message edited by: Norfleet ]

[sachmo]

I like variety. More magic items, please.

[Gandalf Parker]

Im still have MoM on my machine. And Im a faithful follower of the MoM2 rallying site.

The problem with most efforts at a MoM2 is that if they try to multiplayer it they do the balance like AOW:SM instead of like Dom2 does which kills the replayability. Especially any solo replay. (yes I do have AOW:SM also, and any other game that ever claimed to be a MoM2)

[ May 20, 2004, 15:10: Message edited by: Gandalf Parker ]

[sachmo]

Originally posted by Gandalf Parker:
Im still have MoM on my machine. And Im a faithful follower of the MoM2 rallying site.

The problem with most efforts at a MoM2 is that if they try to multiplayer it they do the balance like AOW:SM instead of like Dom2 does which kills the replayability. Especially any solo replay. (yes I do have AOW:SM also, and any other game that ever claimed to be a MoM2)

Linky?

Also, did you try Leylines?

[ May 20, 2004, 15:28: Message edited by: sachmo ]

[NTJedi]

What the game really needs is more Helms or other headgear ! There are so few selections.

[Cohen]

Well I'd wish for a:

A magic mace/MornStar that can destroy enemy armor/shield: even magic one, even artifact.

A similar special sword to broke/disarm enemy leader, even with magical weapon(s).

Gem of Tactics: this item would grant enhanced tactics, allowing:
-if you're moving away and an enemy army gets in your province, you move away before the enemy enter avoiding the battle.
- The opposite if you enter the enemy land and enemy is moving elsewhere.
-If 2 nations or more are attacking Indies, of themselves in the same province, your army will have the Last battle (so it's less tired than other).
The gem will work for all the stack of leaders in the province, assuming the gem owner is the comanding general of the army group.

Book of Ambushes:
This book explain how to ambush enemies and withdraw. Your troops will retreat even in enemy territory, and keeping them toghether. This works only if you're hiding capable.

Book of Strategy:
This book allow you to retreat always in a single army into a your province, avoiding the spreading effect.

Sword of Eternity (unique, you don't lose it when you die in your dominion and appears in your lab):
Gives immortal attribute.

Soul Sword (unique):
Sword with good stats, capable of *killing* immortal ones too. It should be nice if prevents regeneration too.

Steeds:
Put on the feet place ... various type of steed, to provide your leaders a mount. This could be a pegasus, a lava horse for abysyans, and so on ... the forge cost could be considerer a training cost in such a skilled creature.

Crusader Helmet (difficult to forge, const 6 fire and astral and if possible the character forging should be a priest too): Heavy protecting helmet adding +1 to holy skill. Should have Enc 2 or 3.


I agree with more helmets, and more footwear. At least 1 item for spell path (ie: a boot with fire requirements)

[Duncanish]

I think various forgeable holy/unholy equipment would be nifty. Things like the Wooden Stake (nullifies regen and immortality), Holy Water (area effect, good damage to undead and demons but won't hurt others), Holy Symbol (+1 Holy and Awe). Unholy could have opposite effect of Holy gear (healing demons/undead, hurting humans, etc). LIke I said, would be nifty, but not necassarily good. To me, it doesn't seem thematically correct for a nation like Abyssia using Holy Water, whereas Marignon would. Maybe different nations get different forgeable gear? I dunno.