Tips for finding blood slaves appreciated here

[tinkthank]

Are you familiar with Frank Zappa's song "Catholic School Girls" (on Joe's Garage)? Just a thought.

Thanks for the tips people. I think my problem was I was trying in provinces with too low population. Just: larger pops tend also to be richer, and one doesnt want to upset and/or lower taxes on those rich provinces.... ah tradeoffs. I like this game. I miss sleep. Wife angry. Must sue. Ah no sorry forget that.

[ywl]

Originally posted by Graeme Dice:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Norfleet:
One way to rake in the blood slaves is to strew any province with > 5K people with a scout or two hunting, and take the taxes down to maybe 70-80:

I find it hard to believe that a zero blood scout will hunt more effectively than a 1 blood mictlan priest with a dousing rod. Especially when that priest costs only twice as much per turn.

---

Priests are more effective. But there is no unrest if the scouts don't get any blood slaves. And they can't find too many each time, so the 70-80 tax rate take care of the unrest when that happened. So, you could in theory flood a moderate size with 4+ scouts and let them blood hunt. Collect the slaves only once in a few turns.

[licker]

Originally posted by ywl:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Graeme Dice:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Norfleet:
One way to rake in the blood slaves is to strew any province with > 5K people with a scout or two hunting, and take the taxes down to maybe 70-80:

I find it hard to believe that a zero blood scout will hunt more effectively than a 1 blood mictlan priest with a dousing rod. Especially when that priest costs only twice as much per turn.

---

Priests are more effective. But there is no unrest if the scouts don't get any blood slaves. And they can't find too many each time, so the 70-80 tax rate take care of the unrest when that happened. So, you could in theory flood a moderate size with 4+ scouts and let them blood hunt. Collect the slaves only once in a few turns.

---

Scouts suck period. I find it hard to believe that it is more cost effective to use 4+ scouts than 1 decent mage with blood on them (and the dousing rod, which if I recall correctly doesn't help non blood powered commanders anymore). Beyond that your blood mage can switch to summoning demons when needed, the scouts can't do squat, well they have their value as scouts, but that's only useful outside of your provinces...

Scouts can be useful to ferry slaves from hunting commanders in provinces without labs though...

[NTJedi]

I've had those Telestic Animation statues go and find blood slaves !! Yes actually it was catching them.
--- how it happens who knows ---


example of how the statue goes blood hunting:

Statue sitting in an open field.
For some strange miracle a virgin lady walks by asking, " what are you doing?"

Statue says, " Aha... now you're captured to be used as a blood slave for our pretender. "

Virgin Lady says, " Get Lost Stupid statue ! " and she begins to walk away laughing.

Statue says, " Hey wait... if you stick around and just keep me company I'll take you shopping. "

Virgin Lady says, "Okay... and I'll tell you about all the gossip in my village plus my sister should be coming by soon where we can all gossip. "

********** two hours later ************

Imperial Guards of the pretender arrive to check on the statue.

Statue says, " Please kill them now... stop this torture.... AHHH ! "

Originally posted by licker:
Scouts suck period. I find it hard to believe that it is more cost effective to use 4+ scouts than 1 decent mage with blood on them (and the dousing rod, which if I recall correctly doesn't help non blood powered commanders anymore). Beyond that your blood mage can switch to summoning demons when needed, the scouts can't do squat, well they have their value as scouts, but that's only useful outside of your provinces...

Scouts can be useful to ferry slaves from hunting commanders in provinces without labs though...

Scouts have quite a few benefits over most nations blood hunters.

1.) They are not capital only. Any province with a Scout can make a blood hunter cheap and effectively.

2.) With the variance of the blood hunting process, 5 scouts (100 Gold) will hunt up more slaves than 1 Mictlan Priest, though it may be sporatic (meaning one or two turns you might get only a few, and another turn you could get 20+).

3.) Scouts are stealthy, most blood priests are not.

4.) Scouts can hunt in a province you are still taxing and not get unrest because of the variable system in which they are used. Thus if you want to have 1-2 scouts in every province 5k+ in population and set the tax to 90% you can do so, without reciving much in the way of a unrest hit. This also provides a way of hunting across your empire and not getting your blood hunting interrupted by a CotW or CotWild that hits your hunting provinces.

Scouts are far superior in my mind, as well as being able to blood hunt earlier. While getting and placing hunter with Blood Magic and Dousing Rods is something you do to increase your Blood Hunting Capability, more often than not, I'd rather just make a bunch of scouts in 3 or 4 provinces and make a new mage in my castle provinces.

[ February 11, 2004, 19:09: Message edited by: Zen ]

[licker]

Originally posted by Zen:

quote:

---

Originally posted by licker:
Scouts suck period. I find it hard to believe that it is more cost effective to use 4+ scouts than 1 decent mage with blood on them (and the dousing rod, which if I recall correctly doesn't help non blood powered commanders anymore). Beyond that your blood mage can switch to summoning demons when needed, the scouts can't do squat, well they have their value as scouts, but that's only useful outside of your provinces...

Scouts can be useful to ferry slaves from hunting commanders in provinces without labs though...

Scouts have quite a few benefits over most nations blood hunters.

1.) They are not capital only. Any province with a Scout can make a blood hunter cheap and effectively.

2.) With the variance of the blood hunting process, 5 scouts (100 Gold) will hunt up more slaves than 1 Mictlan Priest, though it may be sporatic (meaning one or two turns you might get only a few, and another turn you could get 20+).

3.) Scouts are stealthy, most blood priests are not.

4.) Scouts can hunt in a province you are still taxing and not get unrest because of the variable system in which they are used. Thus if you want to have 1-2 scouts in every province 5k+ in population and set the tax to 90% you can do so, without reciving much in the way of a unrest hit. This also provides a way of hunting across your empire and not getting your blood hunting interrupted by a CotW or CotWild that hits your hunting provinces.

Scouts are far superior in my mind, as well as being able to blood hunt earlier. While getting and placing hunter with Blood Magic and Dousing Rods is something you do to increase your Blood Hunting Capability, more often than not, I'd rather just make a bunch of scouts in 3 or 4 provinces and make a new mage in my castle provinces.

---

Good points Zen, I'll still disagree that scouts are *better* blood hunters in general though. It does depend somewhat on what kinds of provinces you have, and what access to blood mages you have. Diabolical faith has a 90gp 1F1B mage for example, also useful for pumping out scads of Demon Jesters when needed.

The most slaves I've ever gotten with a Scout was 4, that was in a 10k pop province. Mostly my scouts get 2 or 3 slaves, and thats every 4th turn or worse. A 1blood with a dousing rod (and what true blood nation isn't going to employ those...) averaged 6 or 7 every turn. That equates to more than 4 scouts... Well that's my experience anyway, sure you can use scouts to blood hunt, and you may even be better off in the short run using them before you can muster up enough blood mages to do the work for you.

As to stealth... well I dunno, but for pure blood hunters I don't think stealth is really all that much of an advantage. There is something to be said for spreading your hunts, but I'm not convinced you get zero unrest hits for unseccusful hunts, in fact I'm pretty sure this isn't the case, I've had unrest up in provinces with scouts who were unsuccesful, perhaps not as much as if they were successful, but the unrest will still accumulate, and for a zero return at that.

Anyway, I overstated that Scouts suck (imagine that, hyperbole on a message board ) but I still think the case for them in lieu of blood mages is poor, then again, alot depends on the actual dynamics of the game and what you can and can't do

Originally posted by licker:
Good points Zen, I'll still disagree that scouts are *better* blood hunters in general though. It does depend somewhat on what kinds of provinces you have, and what access to blood mages you have. Diabolical faith has a 90gp 1F1B mage for example, also useful for pumping out scads of Demon Jesters when needed.

I agree that some nations (DF and Mictlan) have very decent blood hunters, that don't require as much work as scouts. But those are the only two nations who could do that, and they are limited by the fact they can only produce them in castle provinces. These nations are aided by the fact you can scout and use their own cheap blood hunters to ramp up a quick blood economy. In the early game, you need research as much as blood slaves. So this is the best of both worlds, then when you need to convert to a higher blood output you convert ~5 priests with dousing rod to your 5k+ province with 0% tax and watch the blood roll in.

The most slaves I've ever gotten with a Scout was 4, that was in a 10k pop province. Mostly my scouts get 2 or 3 slaves, and thats every 4th turn or worse. A 1blood with a dousing rod (and what true blood nation isn't going to employ those...) averaged 6 or 7 every turn. That equates to more than 4 scouts... Well that's my experience anyway, sure you can use scouts to blood hunt, and you may even be better off in the short run using them before you can muster up enough blood mages to do the work for you.

I have found the opposite. I get anywhere between 0~7 with scouts. From my tests, a 1 Blood w/o Dousing Rod mage will hunt about as effectively as 3 Scouts. With a Dousing Rod it is between 5~6 Scouts. But this also accounts for constant unrest, so it's best to place your Blood, blood hunters in a 0% Tax province with others, while you let your scouts take slaves from numerous other interior provinces.

but I'm not convinced you get zero unrest hits for unseccusful hunts, in fact I'm pretty sure this isn't the case, I've had unrest up in provinces with scouts who were unsuccesful, perhaps not as much as if they were successful, but the unrest will still accumulate, and for a zero return at that.

Unrest accumulates from unrest. So if you are unable to completely kill the unrest of a turn by tax or patrol, it will breed more unrest. So if you have a set tax rate that will not clear the unrest you currently have, produced by your current unrest, and will squelch the unrest caused by next turns blood hunts, you will accumulate unrest.

An unsuccessful blood hunt gives you 1 point of Unrest. So even if 5 scouts fail, you will only get 5 points of unrest, which will be cleaned by 90% taxes.

Anyway, I overstated that Scouts suck (imagine that, hyperbole on a message board ) but I still think the case for them in lieu of blood mages is poor, then again, alot depends on the actual dynamics of the game and what you can and can't do

I agree. There is a fine line between the speed at which you get your slaves (for a sudden advantage by using Blood Summons/spells) or the steady income. I prefer speed, since that is my particular playstyle and because there is significant advantage to the speed of blood.

The main point of Scout blood hunting isn't for DF or Mictlan, but for other nations who have no ability to hunt for blood without sacrifice. Vanheim, Jotun, Abysia, etc. If you relied on your mages because of their cost to blood hunt, it would be far more pronounced than DF or Mictlan.

[ February 11, 2004, 20:10: Message edited by: Zen ]