A wise idea for IW?

[Arryn]

Originally posted by Graeme Dice:
NWN is owned by Bioware. Atari is the publisher mostly because Atari has the Forgotten Realms license.

Well, since you feel like quibbling, check out the NWN trademark. It's owned, as I said, by Atari, who bought out Infogrames. The page clearly states this. Bioware only owns the rights to the engine, not the game (copyright) or the game's trademarked name.

[Argitoth]

Originally posted by Saber Cherry:
I intensely dislike expansion packs. In fact, I have only purchased one in my life (for Morrowind) and regretted it. If I have not purchased the game, I would not want to spend $70+ to buy the "complete" game; and if I have already bought the game, being forced to pay extra for an expansion irks me. Kohan had an expansion, which I did not buy, and which resulted in my being unable to play multiplayer games. AoW2 had an "expansion" that I consider mainly a bugfix, which I also did not buy. Bugfix expansions tell me, "If we screwed up, you're the one that will pay."

Expansions, IMO, segment the community - something that is not a good idea. I see them as a way to milk profits from a half-assed effort, and when the expansion + original are released in a "treasure chest", like Blizzard does, I see them as a way of milking profits by abusing the most devoted fans.*

Microsoft is a good example. For several generations, Word and Excel have added no new useful functionality for most Users... the only important change was to generate files in a format incompatible with old Versions, so that owners would be forced to upgrade even though their current Version was adequate. Windows 98 is also a good example; it is essentially a bugfix for Windows 95, which cost (at release) over $100.

In my opinion, software products released by a company should be either distinct, or free upgrades. Penalizing early adopters, as Blizzard (and sometimes Microsoft) likes to do, makes their early adopters hate them.

In other words, I would rather that effort be spent either fixing bugs OR designing a next-generation product, but not on devising schemes to generate additional income from the most devoted fanbase by selling marginal enhancements to an existing product. To put it bluntly: I will never again buy an expansion pack, and will never buy the first Version of a product from a company that engages in "expansion pack tactics".

-Cherry

*Edit:

In other words, devoted fans have to pay full price for the expansion pack, but people that waited get the expansions for free. Thus, the hardcore fans are penalized. If a company punishes people for trusting them... well, downhill is the only way to go. Unless the fanbase is a group of devoted, gullible masochists, like... hmmm... some companies spawn.

THIS!!! IS!!! EXACTLY!!! WHAT!!!... I am talking about. Right on the spot. Exactly.

I cannot buy a game unless I can buy all the expansions, bottom line. I feel so deprived of the real thing if I buy just the game without the expansions.

[PhilD]

Originally posted by Arryn:
People look at the demo, and either hate the game, or they love it. There's not much in between, and price is usually not the deciding factor. Good customer support is, and Dom has the best.

Not about the question of an expansion pack (with so many players into MP, this might cause problems), but I'm not sure Dom has the best customer supports - it's very good, but I'd say I liked the Stardock support of Galactic Civilizations better. There would typically be one minor patch a week in the months following release, and I don't remember them breaking anything - testing was done more thoroughly. Of course, I believe Stardock is much more a full-time company than Illwinter is.

Oh, and Stardock is going to release a (non-free) expansion pack for GalCiv, but that's after about one year of continued support, including a free expansion pack. Plus, since GalCiv has no multiplayer, there is no pressure to buy it other than the new content (which seems quite nice, BTW - might have to share my playing time to pick up GC again).

[Arryn]

Originally posted by PhilD:
I'd say I liked the Stardock support of Galactic Civilizations better. There would typically be one minor patch a week in the months following release, and I don't remember them breaking anything - testing was done more thoroughly. Of course, I believe Stardock is much more a full-time company than Illwinter is.

Oh, and Stardock is going to release a (non-free) expansion pack for GalCiv, but that's after about one year of continued support, including a free expansion pack. Plus, since GalCiv has no multiplayer, there is no pressure to buy it other than the new content (which seems quite nice, BTW - might have to share my playing time to pick up GC again).

There's a 1.2x update to GalCiv. Check with Stardock Central.

Stardock has stated, repeatedly, that they subsidize GalCiv with the proceeds from their commercial, non-gaming products. Plus they are a larger, better-established company that's been around a lot longer. It's not a particularly good comparison to IW, IMO.

With regards to breaking things: no one's perfect. I don't mind Utgard getting broken so much as the time it's taking IW to get a fix out for it, considering that KO knew what was wrong within minutes of my reporting the bug. IMO, the patch should have been quickly "recalled", the fix added, and then re-released. Or a mini-patch (2.08a) made to just fix what got broken. I find it somewhat annoying that they appear to be leaving the Utgard fix for their regular update process. When most other gaming companies (not Paradox) break something in a patch they release a revised patch within hours, or at most a couple of days. 2.08 was 9 days ago ...

[PhilD]

Originally posted by Arryn:

Stardock has stated, repeatedly, that they subsidize GalCiv with the proceeds from their commercial, non-gaming products. Plus they are a larger, better-established company that's been around a lot longer. It's not a particularly good comparison to IW, IMO.

I'm not belittling IW's merits or whatever, I'm just offering an example of what I consider better support than IW's. The quality of this support is unrelated to the size of the team, too.

In other words, just because the resources are not the same, does not mean IW's support is better. It's quite adequate, but it's perfect. And I don't expect it to be.

[MythicalMino]

Originally posted by Zurai:

quote:

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Originally posted by PDF:

And about the price tag, I happen to have bought KotoR some time after Dom2 : with KotoR (40 EUR)I had maybe 20 hours of play, it cost me 2 EUR/hr. And it's over, I don't plan to play it again anytime soon. Even if I replay the game 1 time cost would be 1 EUR/hr.
With Dom I should have played at least 100 hrs, and spent the same time elaborating strategies, reading docs, toyed with modding, etc ... and I'll surely play it for another 100 hrs !
Best bang for the buck gaming investment, and it also made me meet new friends !

You're comparing apples to rutabagas here. Comparing a very linear RPG to a TBS in the hours-played department is sheer folly. At least pick a LONG linear RPG, eg Baldur's Gate 2.

A better comparison would be Dom 2 vs Civ 3. Civ was buyable at $40 at release, had much better graphics, infinitely better interface, and depending on your preferences and prejudices the gameplay is just as good.

NOTE: I'm just playing the Devil's Advocate here. I bought Dom2 for $40 from GoGamer and am completely satisfied with what I got for that price.

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Civ3 at release was 50 bucks....and VERY unplayable...bugs and memory leaks galore.

It took them TWO expansion packs to FINALLY get it right....Dom2 is a mucho bettero game than civ3 was at release....Civ3 just recently (within the past year maybe) dropped the price to 40 bucks. Now granted, you get Civ3 and the 1st x-pack, for that price, but to get the x-pack that made it what it was "promised" to be, you have to shell out another 30 bucks, which brings the grand total to 70 bucks buying it outright now.

If you bought civ3 at release it was 50 bucks (or, 65-70 if you were suckered into the VERY incomplete collectors edition tin box, which reminds me, "Developers Notes" anyone?). Then 30 bucks at release for the 1st expansion, then another 30 for the 2nd expansion. This equals, what? $110 for a game that is now finally complete????? Compared to 50 bucks for Dom2, which actually seems to deliver, and then some?

I would take Shrapnel/IW anytime over Civ3.