Proposed Modding Cost Guidelines

Sacred gives +50% cost in Gold. It's a good rule, unless there is a good reason for it to be broken (aka, thematic or balance reason).

[Uh-Nu-Buh]

Reworked Tables, plus some additions for your perusal and comments. One of the things I vacillate on is a fixed fee or a rate. E.g. Amphibian--should it cost 5gp, or should it cost 10% of the unit's base cost? The ability is important, and the more powerful the unit, the more important being an amphibian is.... Which is better for game balance?

Gold based on Skills (hp, st, etc.)
==================================
7-9 pnts skill = 0.5X cost (weak human)
10-12 pnts skill = 1X cost (avge human, weak monster)
13-15 pnts skill = 1.5X cost (elite human, average monster)
16-19 pnts skill = 2X cost (super elite human, above average monster)
20-29 pnts skill = 4X cost (super man, elite monster)
30-40 pnts skill = 6X cost (elite monster nobility)
41+ = 8X cost (elite monster royalty)
==================================


Resources (based on normal equipment)
======================
0-8 light X0.75
9-11 average X1.00
12-20 heavy X1.50
21-29 super X2.00
30-40 amazing X3.00
41+ insane X5.00
======================


Fear Costs
======================
1-4 6gold/pnt (undead lord, minor demon, necromancer)
5-9 9gold/pnt (undead king, med demon, high level necromancer)
10-14 12gold/pnt (major demon, psionic thing from beyond)
15-19 15gold/pnt (demon nobility, major gibbering horror from beyond)
20+ 20gold/pnt (world-destroying menace all pretenders should band up against)
======================


Ethereal
======================
10% more gold
======================


Regeneration
======================
X% X% more gold (werewolf has regen 10%, Tarasque has 60%)
======================


Resistance (fire, cold, poison, shock)
======================
1-25 flat 3 gold per resistance
26-50 flat 6 gold
51-75 flat 9 gold
76-100 flat 12 gold

e.g. unit with fire/cold res of 25%/25%, costs +6 more than its base.

Mounted
======================
2 gold
======================


Animal
======================
0
======================


Amphibian
======================
20% more gold
======================


Aquatic
======================
0
======================


Pooramphibian
======================
10% more gold
======================


Flying
======================
5 gold
======================


neednoteat
======================
5 gold
======================


heal
======================
I am not sure what this does. Heal unit only, or heal all units in stack?
======================


Heat
======================
5 gold
======================


Cold
======================
5 gold
======================


Trample
======================
5 gold
======================


Immobile
======================
-5 gold
======================


Immortal
======================
+50%
======================


Iceprot
======================
======================


Poisonarmor
======================
======================


Holy
======================
+33% (official word is +50%, but I think that is too much)
======================


Berserk
======================
1g/pnt (max berserk value should be def value, imho)
======================


Illusion
======================
======================


Stealthy
======================

======================


Spy
======================
======================


Assassin
======================
5gp
======================


Noitem
======================
-5gold
======================


Coldblood
======================
-5gp
======================


Inanimate
======================
5gp
======================


Magicbeing
======================
5gp
======================


Undead
======================
0gp
======================


Blind
======================
5gp
======================


Eyes
======================
1 -5gp
2 0gp
3-4 3gp
5+ 10gp
======================


Eyeloss
======================
5gp
======================


Horrormark
======================
5gp
======================


Entangle
======================
5gp
======================


Fireshield
======================
5gp+1/dge pnt
======================


Poisoncloud
======================

======================

Diseasecloud
======================

======================


Awe
======================
not sure how this is different from fear?
======================

[Wauthan]

Hmmm... good thinking. I've deviced my own little system but it would be interesting if we could get a concensus to make modding easier.

Awe could be compared to a "personal forcefield". It doesn't protect the unit against spells or missiles but lets it own melee if it is high enough. This should cost less than fear initially but the increase should be steeper. Awe 20 would make the unit unbeatable in melee.
Cost should be multiplied if the unit also has a passive damage aura.
Eg: Had a GoR hydra with awe +6. This thing could wipe out armies all on its own because of the toxic fumes surrounding it.

Mounted should cost 15 gold and add 10 to action points.

[Teraswaerto]

Originally posted by Wauthan:

Awe 20 would make the unit unbeatable in melee.

Mindless units don't care about awe.

[ February 29, 2004, 16:54: Message edited by: Teraswaerto ]

[Saber Cherry]

Originally posted by Uh-Nu-Buh:


Gold based on Skills (hp, st, etc.)
==================================
7-9 pnts skill = 0.5X cost (weak human)
10-12 pnts skill = 1X cost (avge human, weak monster)
13-15 pnts skill = 1.5X cost (elite human, average monster)
16-19 pnts skill = 2X cost (super elite human, above average monster)
20-29 pnts skill = 4X cost (super man, elite monster)
30-40 pnts skill = 6X cost (elite monster nobility)
41+ = 8X cost (elite monster royalty)
==================================

Hmmm. I think these are a bit extreme. 30+ values do not compare to normal values. 29 attack / defense / morale versus normal humans would never break, always hit, and be hit about .001% of the time. A 29/29/29 human (costing 40 gold, by your guidelines) could wipe out 100 normal soldiers without a scratch.

10-12 points are not "normal" for humans; Dominions humans have 10 base stats, and are typically +1 gold per point in excess (for small values). For example, Tien Chi Imperial Spearmen get +2 morale and +1 defense for +3 gold. That might be a little overpriced.

Anyway, stat bonuses have rapidly increasing value and should be priced exponentially, or similarly. For example, if a unit has all stats 10 except defense, it might be fair to price it like this:

code:

---

Defense: 10   11   12   13   14   15   16   17   18

Gold:    10   10.5 11.5 13   16   18.5 21.5 25   29

---

...or at an even steeper rate (what I showed above is linear, not geometric). Of course, attack is not nearly as valuable. But charging 40 gold for a "superman" unit with 29 HP, 29 attack, 29 defense, 29 morale, 29 strength, 29 MR...

Um.

I humbly suggest you try out such a unit in the combat sim, notice that it can utterly destroy all other units in the game (including all the Gods, greater blood summons, and Doom Horrors), and then maybe reconsider the 40 gold cost=)

Unless I'm misinterpreting what .5x / 1x / 2x / 4x mean?

[ February 29, 2004, 17:22: Message edited by: Saber Cherry ]

[Uh-Nu-Buh]

Saber, here's my example of how to use the tables. You'll find that it is more in line with reality than how you were reading the tables.

New Unit Example--The fabled Steel Battalion. An incredibly elite Super Heavy Infantry, full of weight lifting 7 foot tall supermen who push the envelope of humanity. Here are this proud group's stats:
hp 18
st 18
att 18
def 18
mor 18
mr 18
pre 10
arm 26
dge 20

This looks like standard stats for the people who used to bring pre-rolled characters and try to get into my DnD games. Anyways, let's add Conan here up and estimate the unit cost.
10gold +8stX2 +8hpX2 +8attX2 +8defX2 +8morX2 +8mrX2 = 106gold
10res +16armorX2 +17dgeX2 = 76res


Saber, your example of a 29/29/29 human would be VERY expensive. Let's call this Ubermensch the Sabre Infantry:

hp 29
st 29
att 29
def 18
mor 18
mr 18
pre 10
arm 26
dge 20

10gold +19stX4 +19hpX4 +19attX4 +8defX2 +8morX2 +8mrX2 = 10+76+76+76+16+16+16 = 286gold
10res +16armorX2 +17dgeX2 = 76res

The Sabre Infantry. Be All That You Can Be! ;-)

286 Gold is not alot for a unit with those Stats. Look at the Neifel Jarl.