Proposed Modding Cost Guidelines

[Uh-Nu-Buh]

Arryn, I'd love to see some debate about it. Two people opined that ST and ATT were not very important, but Def definitely was. Other characteristics were mentioned as well. I am unsure if that is true.

E.g. 1 on 1 attack, Def and Arm are both just about as important. 2 on 1, Def becomes less important as it is less effective; in this case, armor would be more important than defense skill. 3 on 1, Def becomes even less effective, while I believe armor still works against all attackers.

This makes me think Att and Def are just as important, and Armor is more important, so should cost more.

Someone suggested that natural protection should be more expensive than artificial protection. I am unsure if they meant this in a game-balance way, or as in it is hard to have natural armor equivalent to plate armor--very hard. So it should cost more.

I would love for people to kick these ideas around, provide examples, etc. We'd all learn from it, and I will add it in as it makes sense to me.

[Graeme Dice]

Originally posted by Uh-Nu-Buh:
This makes me think Att and Def are just as important, and Armor is more important, so should cost more.

Armor has no gold cost, it has resource costs. Defense is more important than attack because there are very few units with high defense, and therefore a unit that can't be hit doesn't need attack to hit most other units. The defense reduction for multiple attacks isn't likely to be more than 3-6 unless the unit is surrounded, as not every attack on the square will hit the unit.

Someone suggested that natural protection should be more expensive than artificial protection. I am unsure if they meant this in a game-balance way, or as in it is hard to have natural armor equivalent to plate armor--very hard. So it should cost more.

Natural protection is part of the body of the unit, so it raises gold costs. I would say that your fear costs are still too low. I would think that gaining a fear+0 aura would cost around 30-40 gold, and every point beyond that would start at about 10 gold per point. Fear is extremely powerful if you give it any kind of area of effect, and multiple units with moderate level fear will rout enemies very easily. Witness how quickly squads rout from small Groups of death-9 blessed Knights of the Unholy Sepulchre.

[Wauthan]

After a brief comparison between similar units found in the different nations I think one can safely assume that there is no built in formula in unit cost.

Take a look at the various priest units of the human factions. Stats are readily comparable but costs don't follow a logical pattern. I assume that Illwinter considered more factors then just stats and abilities. Making a detailed guide seems to be a very difficult task. I could not come up with a cost for "Heal" when I tried using the current formula on the Arcosephale Priestess.

I can only hope that one of the Illwinter team finds the time to comment on this thread since they surely had some kind of plan when they created units. Most units got nice round costs in gold indicating an estimated value rather than a formula though.

[Uh-Nu-Buh]

Good point. I think a smaller, easier to use, less accurate, in-the-ballpark, guidebook would be better for most people. With a lot of general advice. A section on game-balance. Another section on thematic unity. And a couple of good examples.

Looking back over what has been done before, it all looks too difficult for most people to use. Simpler, cleaner, more general....

[Kristoffer O]

As Wauthan said, there is no formula. We have some guidlines, but some thematic considerations and a good portion of common sense are needed.

Special abilities are not given costs. Use your own judgement, but remember that a special power is several times as powerful when given to a commander.

Seraphs of Caelum cost about 75% of what they should do according to the guidelines (and they have powerful special abilities). Pans are very expensive, but have more hitpoints and special abilities. Pans of New Era are less powerful and do not have the maenad ability. They still cost the same.

Tip: Make every unit too expensive at first. It is easier to discover imbalances on the negative side of the spectrum. A powerful unit is nice to watch, but it is rather difficult to tell yourself that your new favourite is too powerful. If you give it a high cost it is not that hard to lower the cost when you discover that the unit is too expensive.

[Bossemanden]

Originally posted by Uh-Nu-Buh:

Item Costs
==========

F=# fire gems
E=# earth gems
As=# astral gems
D=# death gems
N=# nature gems
Ai=# air gems
B=# blood slaves

X=Total cost in gems=(1.5F)+(1.25E)+(0.75As)+D+N+Ai
L=Level of construction=(1,2,4,6 or 8)


Gold cost = G = 4*X
Ressource cost = R = 8*(L+B/10)

Example: Fire Sword
Gold price=4*5*1.5= 30 gold
Resource price = 8*1= 8 resources

Example: Hellsword
Gold price = 4*10*2= 80 gold
Resource price = 8*(6+1)= 56 resources

A little nitpick. Currently you are not taking blood into consideration, when determining X. Maybe that is intentional. If it is then the example price for the Hellsword is inacurate.

[ March 08, 2004, 10:41: Message edited by: Bossemanden ]