Another possible combat bug in v1.35 (weapon platforms)

[HreDaak]

quote:

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Originally posted by Nitram Draw:
You could chek to see if it related only to fighters by putting 2 x ECM and 2 X combat sensors on the respective ships. They use the same ability. See if they also stack, they shouldn't.

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Tested this one.. they do not stack. But there is this one strange problem with them. When there are units in the same tactical square (on a planet for example) the highest of the combat sensors/ECM systems present is used by ALL the units in the same tactical square (on a planet for example). You could create 2 different weapon platforms of which one has combat sensors and the other one does not have and their chance to hit hostile targets in combat are same... (ie. both weapon platforms benefit from combat sensors even though only one of them actually has them).

Here is a list of bugs/features that i have encountered in a tactical combat...

1. Weapon Modifier in Components.txt and Weapon To Hit Modifier in CompEnhancements.txt behave strangely. They both raise the weapons minimum To Hit Chance in combats. So if you give weapon a Weapon Modifier or a Weapon To Hit Modifier (Mount) the weapons minimum chance to hit in combat is raised to this number+1%. For example if you give a weapon Weapon Modifier of X then that weapons to hit chance in combats never (if the target is in that weapons range) goes below (X+1)%.

2. Combat To Hit Offense/Defense Plus abilities in VehicleSize.txt do stack on units that are in the same tactical square at the beginning of the combat (all units on a planet are in the same tactical square).

3. The abilities Combat To Hit Offense/Defense Plus in Components.txt file do not stack but the highest of these abilities present in that tactical square at the beginning of the combat is used by all the units (all units on a planet are in the same tactical square).

For example: At the beginning of the combat on a planet there are 2 weapon platforms with combat sensors III, 3 weapon platforms without combat sensors and 10 large fighters with small combat sensors III.
ALL the weapon platforms on a planet have same offensive modifier. This modifier is +65%(from the highest Combat To Hit Offense Plus ability from Components.txt file that is present on the planet)+550%(large fighters Combat To Hit Offense ability from VehicleSize.txt file*11)+30%/+6%(depending if its simulator or real combat)=+645%/+621%.

4. Weapon platforms on a planet have offensive modifier of +30% in simulator and +6% in real combats (this is hard coded feature or a bug).

Could someone repeat those 3 test phases that are in my earlier post and then post the results in this thread?

[HreDaak]

quote:

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Originally posted by Q:
The more tests I make the less I understand it:
If I have two weapon platforms on a planet one with combat sensors and one without, the hit chance for both are equal! And if you compare it to one single weapon platform without combat sensors it seems that the combat sensor is effective for both platforms.

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Yep.. all the units in the same tactical square at the beginning of the combat use the best combat sensors offensive modifier.

quote:

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If I have an equal fighter group of ten each, one group with ECM and combat sensors
(max tech level) and the other without, the hit chance for the first group on the other is 1% and for the second group on the first one 10% if the are on adjacent squares

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The First Groups (with ECM and combat sensors) chance to hit the other fighter group is 100%(Base Hit Chance)-10%(range modifier)+550%(11*the ability combat to hit offense plus from vehiclesize.txt)-660%(11*the ability Combat to hit defense plus from vehiclesize.txt if you are using large fighters otherwise its higher)+30%(combat sensors)= 10%. The other fighter Groups chance to hit the group with ECM's, Comb. Sensors is 100%-10%+550%-660%-30%(ECM)= -50% , the chance to hit is below 0% and so it's rounded to 1% which is the minimum chance in any situation (could have something to do with the Weapon modifier in components.txt file that is set to 0 for all small weapons (0+1)%=1%).


[This message has been edited by HreDaak (edited 15 May 2001).]

[This message has been edited by HreDaak (edited 15 May 2001).]

[Nitram Draw]

That is very odd, that the ability in the vehicle file stacks but not the component file.


[This message has been edited by Nitram Draw (edited 15 May 2001).]

Maybe the ability needs to be removed from the hull and given to the cockpit with a comprable increase to fighter ecm and sensors.

[This message has been edited by Nitram Draw (edited 15 May 2001).]

[Q]

More bad news: I had a group of 30 fighters against a group of 20 fighters. Not astonishing after you are aware of the bug the hit chance for the larger group was displayed 99% and for the smaller group 1%.....
but...
when I just fired with the smaller group on the larger one I got about 20% hits!!
So the displayed hit chance is not the real hit chance!!

[capnq]

quote:

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Here is a list of bugs/features that i have encountered in a tactical combat...

1. Weapon Modifier in Components.txt and Weapon To Hit Modifier in CompEnhancements.txt behave strangely. They both raise the weapons minimum To Hit Chance in combats. So if you give weapon a Weapon Modifier or a Weapon To Hit Modifier (Mount) the weapons minimum chance to hit in combat is raised to this number+1%. For example if you give a weapon Weapon Modifier of X then that weapons to hit chance in combats never (if the target is in that weapons range) goes below (X+1)%.

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I do not understand why you think this one is a bug. That is exactly the behavior I'd expect, unless you're saying that the two modifiers don't stack if they're both put on a single unit.

------------------
Cap'n Q

The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the
human mind to correlate all of its contents. We live on a placid
island of ignorance in the midst of black seas of infinity, and it was
not meant that we should go far. -- HP Lovecraft

[Nitram Draw]

Do any weapons in the basic game have a to hit modifier? I don't recall seeing any that do.

[HreDaak]

quote:

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I do not understand why you think this one is a bug. That is exactly the behavior I'd expect, unless you're saying that the two modifiers don't stack if they're both put on a single unit.

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Hmm.. well, imo i did not exactly say that any of these so called features are bugs.. thats why i use the notation bug/feature (only Aaron knows if they are bugs). I would have expected them to just give +X% offensive modifier to that weapon/mount and not limit the minimum to hit chance to (X+1)%. If i have earlier said that any of these things i've been posting are bugs, i have been in error, there is no way i could know that they are bugs since i'am not the one who has designed this great game. In any case i hope that i've not been offensive in any way...

[HreDaak]

quote:

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Originally posted by Nitram Draw:
Do any weapons in the basic game have a to hit modifier? I don't recall seeing any that do.

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In addition to point-defense cannons (+70) atleast Incinerator beams have +10, Wave motion guns have +30, high energy magnifiers have +30, Tachyon cannons have +10 and Mental singularity generator has +20, dunno if any others have...

[Nitram Draw]

Thanks, I don't usually use those fancy weapons except for the PD.

[Q]

HreDaak I followed precisely you three step simulator trial in the original SE IV Version 1.35 (without TDM-ModPack):
I can now confirm your results 100%!

I don't know what caused the difference to my first trial but then I used an ongoing game with TDM-ModPack and some modifications of my own including special mounts for weapon platforms.

Just one more question: why has one single fighter twice the offensive/defensive modifier in your calculation?
And please mail your findings to MM if you didn't do that already.