Tien Chi Default

[ywl]

Another question about Tien Chi: does anybody else feel that Spring & Autumn theme is actually stronger than the default?

You lose the imperial archers and crossbowmen in S&A. They're powerful but not nonreplacable. The heavy mounted archers are wonderful on paper but they aren't very practical. In return, you get among the best mages in the game, Masters of the Five Elements and the flying Celestial Masters. Your infantries are all crappy but they're usable if supported up by your mages. More importantly, you still have the composite bow archers as your vehicle for early expansion. You even have access to "Dispossessed Spirits" for free. They can help your mediocre infantry a lot in battle.

Default theme of Tien Chi actually feels weak with the vulnerability of their Celestial Masters to Magic Duel. Master of the Way is a good buy but with only one Water and one random, they're hard to use in battle - 2 water and a random or 1 water, 1 nature and 1 random will be better.

[johan osterman]

Originally posted by rabelais:
Speaking of tien Chi, I'm on turn 18 of a multiplayer game with luck +3 and I have gotten ZERO heros.

Is this a bug, or am I just insanely unlucky?


Rabe the Coward Magnet

You are only slightly unlucky, with luck +3 you average 1 hero every sixteenth turn or so.

[Peter Ebbesen]

Originally posted by ywl:
Another question about Tien Chi: does anybody else feel that Spring & Autumn theme is actually stronger than the default?

Not really. Default T'ien C'hi gets some of the best cavalry in the game (including some of the best sacred cavalry), and they can take order scales. Their better archers, crossbowmen, and infantry are just icing on the cake.

They do play very differently though. I play default T'ien C'hi as an army-heavy nation with good magical backup, whereas S&A lives and dies with its mages.

[Gateway103]

Originally posted by jaif:
Noob question: what line are these spells located in? Actually, more broadly is there a reference somewhere for all national spells? Or even better, a blow-by-blow description of all the nations so I don't have to start a new game with each new nation/theme to figure them out?

-Jeff

There is a thread entitled "Blessing Effects and National/Theme Starting Spells" in the forum, sticked at the top. Or use this link http://www.shrapnelgames.com/cgi-bin...4;t=000459;p=1 and scroll down near the end to Zen's post.

Note not all of the information are necessarily 100% up to date, in fact they probably are not as the post was made Feb. 3rd, 2004, but for the most part it should be adequate. Perhaps someone can make addenum to it including any corrections and V2.08 changes (e.g. Golden Era not included yet).

-Gateway103

[ March 21, 2004, 21:14: Message edited by: Gateway103 ]

[ywl]

Originally posted by Peter Ebbesen:

quote:

---

Originally posted by ywl:
Another question about Tien Chi: does anybody else feel that Spring & Autumn theme is actually stronger than the default?

Not really. Default T'ien C'hi gets some of the best cavalry in the game (including some of the best sacred cavalry), and they can take order scales. Their better archers, crossbowmen, and infantry are just icing on the cake.

They do play very differently though. I play default T'ien C'hi as an army-heavy nation with good magical backup, whereas S&A lives and dies with its mages.

---

You love cavalry in general? It's hard for me to imagine their crossbowmen and archers as icing on the cake, rather than being the cake .

[Peter Ebbesen]

Originally posted by ywl:
You love cavalry in general? It's hard for me to imagine their crossbowmen and archers as icing on the cake, rather than being the cake .

Different strokes for different folks. Yes, I really do like cavalry in general. Expensive and vulnerable to many things though they may be, I do find cavalry very useful. Heavy cavalry, that is, and the only cavalry that beats the Red Guard is the Black Templar and the Knights of the Chalice. The standard Imperial Horsemen that can be recruited in all fortresses are not too bad either, and the Heavy Horseman combines an archer with high protection (14) with the standard lance attack of cavalry in case of close combat, which allows you to have him very close to the frontline.

Qualification: I do not find cavalry all that useful on its own, as all-cavalry armies are hideously expensive, but as flankers and pursuers that ensure that few enemies manage to flee there are none better amongst the recruitable troops, and sometimes cavalry manages to chew up the entire enemy rear. Cavalry has the staying power and the offensive punch that recritable flying units lack.

[Okay, I tell a lie. Cavalry does not make the best recruitable flanker: Niefel Giants are even better flankers and pursuers, but they are sort of their own Category ]

T'ien C'hi heavy cavalry has the considerable advantage that the national mages have paths that enable them to negate several of the vulnerabilities of cavalry. (Arrow fend/storm/mist/anti-magic)

Try Red Guards with a fire-9 or a water-9 blessing.

[tinkthank]

I feel that S&A is not weaker and personally is stronger, but that is because I still dont understand the default theme. CMs rock in S&A, and together with DoHFires they make perfect hit-and-runners too.

Oddly enough, I almost NEVER get the (excellent) Master of Five Elements, but stick to the highly mobile CMs, but that may be due to my pretender choice. With two randoms on the CM, I almost always get an Earth fairly soon, and with high luck scales I can also usually get the healing female Hero with nice nature.

And I have learned to live with the troops. The archers are nothing to sneeze at (with wind guide and flame arrow), and I have a use for all the troops except those ridiculous mounted bowmen (let them shoot when guarding a commander!).