Tien Chi Default

[ywl]

Originally posted by Peter Ebbesen:

quote:

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Originally posted by ywl:
Another question about Tien Chi: does anybody else feel that Spring & Autumn theme is actually stronger than the default?

Not really. Default T'ien C'hi gets some of the best cavalry in the game (including some of the best sacred cavalry), and they can take order scales. Their better archers, crossbowmen, and infantry are just icing on the cake.

They do play very differently though. I play default T'ien C'hi as an army-heavy nation with good magical backup, whereas S&A lives and dies with its mages.

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You love cavalry in general? It's hard for me to imagine their crossbowmen and archers as icing on the cake, rather than being the cake .

[Peter Ebbesen]

Originally posted by ywl:
You love cavalry in general? It's hard for me to imagine their crossbowmen and archers as icing on the cake, rather than being the cake .

Different strokes for different folks. Yes, I really do like cavalry in general. Expensive and vulnerable to many things though they may be, I do find cavalry very useful. Heavy cavalry, that is, and the only cavalry that beats the Red Guard is the Black Templar and the Knights of the Chalice. The standard Imperial Horsemen that can be recruited in all fortresses are not too bad either, and the Heavy Horseman combines an archer with high protection (14) with the standard lance attack of cavalry in case of close combat, which allows you to have him very close to the frontline.

Qualification: I do not find cavalry all that useful on its own, as all-cavalry armies are hideously expensive, but as flankers and pursuers that ensure that few enemies manage to flee there are none better amongst the recruitable troops, and sometimes cavalry manages to chew up the entire enemy rear. Cavalry has the staying power and the offensive punch that recritable flying units lack.

[Okay, I tell a lie. Cavalry does not make the best recruitable flanker: Niefel Giants are even better flankers and pursuers, but they are sort of their own Category ]

T'ien C'hi heavy cavalry has the considerable advantage that the national mages have paths that enable them to negate several of the vulnerabilities of cavalry. (Arrow fend/storm/mist/anti-magic)

Try Red Guards with a fire-9 or a water-9 blessing.

[tinkthank]

I feel that S&A is not weaker and personally is stronger, but that is because I still dont understand the default theme. CMs rock in S&A, and together with DoHFires they make perfect hit-and-runners too.

Oddly enough, I almost NEVER get the (excellent) Master of Five Elements, but stick to the highly mobile CMs, but that may be due to my pretender choice. With two randoms on the CM, I almost always get an Earth fairly soon, and with high luck scales I can also usually get the healing female Hero with nice nature.

And I have learned to live with the troops. The archers are nothing to sneeze at (with wind guide and flame arrow), and I have a use for all the troops except those ridiculous mounted bowmen (let them shoot when guarding a commander!).

[rabelais]

I think the attraction of the MoFE's over the CM's is that they are an even more fabulous research buy, craft very well, and can plausibly get 2 earth, which enables the EarthBoot/dwarven hammer progression.

I've never seen a CM with 2 earth, and outside of ashkasic record/empowering , there isn't any other way to find those yummy earth sites.

Nobles are MUCH better with Faithful/Lead shield/airshield armor than other non earth combos.

Rabe the Aristocrat Wanna be

[tinkthank]

Fair enough.
I play with an Earth pretender (Great Mother), so I am not worried about boots -- she makes a hammer, the first pair of boots to slap on my CM/w random earth, and it goes great from there. Usually never get a Mof5E unless I get really bad luck with no-earth-picks with the CMs.

[ywl]

Originally posted by Peter Ebbesen:

quote:

---

Originally posted by ywl:
You love cavalry in general? It's hard for me to imagine their crossbowmen and archers as icing on the cake, rather than being the cake .

Different strokes for different folks. Yes, I really do like cavalry in general. Expensive and vulnerable to many things though they may be, I do find cavalry very useful. Heavy cavalry, that is, and the only cavalry that beats the Red Guard is the Black Templar and the Knights of the Chalice. The standard Imperial Horsemen that can be recruited in all fortresses are not too bad either, and the Heavy Horseman combines an archer with high protection (14) with the standard lance attack of cavalry in case of close combat, which allows you to have him very close to the frontline.

Qualification: I do not find cavalry all that useful on its own, as all-cavalry armies are hideously expensive, but as flankers and pursuers that ensure that few enemies manage to flee there are none better amongst the recruitable troops, and sometimes cavalry manages to chew up the entire enemy rear. Cavalry has the staying power and the offensive punch that recritable flying units lack.

[Okay, I tell a lie. Cavalry does not make the best recruitable flanker: Niefel Giants are even better flankers and pursuers, but they are sort of their own Category ]

T'ien C'hi heavy cavalry has the considerable advantage that the national mages have paths that enable them to negate several of the vulnerabilities of cavalry. (Arrow fend/storm/mist/anti-magic)

Try Red Guards with a fire-9 or a water-9 blessing.

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I found the contrary - most nations have better cavalry than Tien Chi's, except for their heavy horsemen with bow. Tein Chi's cavalry has low protection comparing to the others. Even Man's regular knights have better stat than them.

I guess the reason is you're playing with high blessed effects, which I usually find impractical. But different people play the game differently. It's no big surprise there.

[Chris Byler]

I believe the M5E is also immune to Magic Duel which is a notorious weakness of the Celestial Masters (of both normal and S&A).

I think "small" mages like Master of the Way can be used on the battlefield - just don't expect one Master of the Way to perform like a CM or Arch Theurg. A Master of the Way costs as much as eight normal soldiers and will perform roughly at that level. If he kills three or four normal soldiers in one battle he's doing pretty well.