The next patch

[PvK]

Originally posted by Teraswaerto:
Limiting the amount of Clams that can exist in the world at the same time would stop excessive hoarding while still leaving Clams useful.

I agree. This is about the same as my earlier suggestion, which I like a little better but would be a little for complex (but perhaps more fun) to code. That was, that there are only so many pearls generated by all the clams in the world per turn, split between all the clams, max 1 per clam. The number could be say equal to the number of sea provinces in the world, or perhaps twice that number. Clams work normally until that number is exceeded, but beyond that start having a less and less chance of getting one of the limited number of pearls that will be generated.

PvK

[Graeme Dice]

Originally posted by Taqwus:
and won't all die to a single unlucky die roll or get auto-paralyzed by Petrify or fall to a lucky hit from a Golem with a gate cleaver or what-have-you.

Petrify is about a 4 turn paralysis, that's not nearly enough to kill a beast that regenerates 15 per turn with invulnerability. That's also a rather lucky die roll. Magic resist of 35 gives about a 0.004% chance for an effect to take hold with standard penetration. If you do manage to kill the VQ, then it's only a couple of turns till it's back and ready to fight again, even if it dies outside of its dominion.

[Graeme Dice]

Originally posted by Norfleet:
Since there are no nations that can naturally produce all of the apparatus involved in the creation of clams, this is a greatly exaggerated issue.

Every nation with a water 1 national mage, or a relatively inexpensive random pick has the "apparatus" to build clams.

[Graeme Dice]

Originally posted by Norfleet:
And 15 deep seers, 5 Kings of the Deep, and sea trolls are weaklings anyway. They are by far not equal in cost, so it's hardly a surprise that they failed.

They are very similar in cost, when you consider the gold spent on upkeep and purchasing, and don't consider the astral pearls from clams as part of the cost. After all, they are entirely free after 20 turns. Those mages cost 4000 gold, and the troops alone had an upkeep of 150. The water gem cost was around 140. That kind of conventional army should be able to destroy any lone unit with only minimal losses, or there is a serious balance problem.

[Norfleet]

Originally posted by Graeme Dice:
Every nation with a water 1 national mage, or a relatively inexpensive random pick has the "apparatus" to build clams.

You're forgetting that without hammers and/or a site, it's much harder to get the ball rolling. Hammers are 20 earth gems base, and every forger needs one or the ROI goes down greatly.

[Stormbinder]

Originally posted by Norfleet:

quote:

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Originally posted by Graeme Dice:
Every nation with a water 1 national mage, or a relatively inexpensive random pick has the "apparatus" to build clams.

You're forgetting that without hammers and/or a site, it's much harder to get the ball rolling. Hammers are 20 earth gems base, and every forger needs one or the ROI goes down greatly.

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Not really. Only first one is 20 earth gems, every additional one almost always will cost you 15 earth gems or less, since you will be using hammer to forge new hammer, not to mention forging site that you might find.

[ April 09, 2004, 07:02: Message edited by: Stormbinder ]

[Norfleet]

Originally posted by Stormbinder:
Not really. Only first one is 20 earth gems, every additional one almost always will cost you 15 earth gems or less, since you will be using hammer to forge new hammer, not to mention forging site that you might find.

You're forgetting that it takes at least an Earth-2 mage, normally, to produce hammers, with the aid of boots. Only a few nations are equipped with this combination (Pan, IF Ulm, Atlantis) normally, and a few others might get access if they got very lucky with randoms. R'lyeh Starspawns are, unfortunately, excluded due to their unfortunate lack of feet that renders them unable to use Earth boots.

If anything, Atlantis is the definitive clam-hoarding nation, having everything required to make clams: Linked randoms on a King of the Deep that can easily roll Earth, cheap water-1 nationals, protected, underwater base, and home province water income as a seed.

So if clam-hoarding is so overwhelmingly powerful, why is Atlantis not much more popular?

[ April 09, 2004, 08:45: Message edited by: Norfleet ]