On the effective early use of Pretenders in combat

[Huzurdaddi]

Near guarantee that the Wyrm will win every duel? I think not. And if the side massing low-level astrals began using communion before mind duel, I really don't know what would happen.

I have heard it said on these Boards that for purposes of mind duel communion does not raise astral level.

adding 1d6 (closed)

I *really* hope this is true, or as I said there is no defence against Mind Duel.

Note that the risks are very slightly off

That's funny! I think that Saber Cherry has become addicted to Monte Carlo simulations! It's only 2 dice, which means that there are only 36 possibilities. It's not horribly difficult to calculate the exact odds! But the chart is good enough for most purposes.

Anyway this is why I was saying taking astral 7 on your original pretender was a good choice. Was there any other reason that you did it? Of course you are stuck since that pretender chasis has astral already built in.

[Scott Hebert]

For my part, as far as a Magical Attack pretender, I have yet to see a better one than the Phoenix. I typically go for a Fire9/Air6 Phoenix, especially if I have sacred troops. In any event, once you have Flame Darts, you're pretty much good to go. Air Shield goes up first round if there are archers, and then you just wade through them. If they get to you, you have nice 'personal range' effects to deal with them like Burning Hands or Shockwave (is that what it's called?) and whatnot.

After getting Flame Darts, you can either continue to get better options, or you can switch to get Flame Shield or more defensive options.

Anyway, my thoughts on Artillery Pretenders.

[AhhhFresh]

Originally posted by Bayushi Tasogare:
For my part, as far as a Magical Attack pretender, I have yet to see a better one than the Phoenix. I typically go for a Fire9/Air6 Phoenix, especially if I have sacred troops. In any event, once you have Flame Darts, you're pretty much good to go. Air Shield goes up first round if there are archers, and then you just wade through them. If they get to you, you have nice 'personal range' effects to deal with them like Burning Hands or Shockwave (is that what it's called?) and whatnot.

After getting Flame Darts, you can either continue to get better options, or you can switch to get Flame Shield or more defensive options.

Anyway, my thoughts on Artillery Pretenders.

I really like that combo with Abysia... since they start with Flare... which is pretty rockin' if you actually hit with it (exceedingly rare with their national mages)... but that additional precision you get from the Air on the Phoenix, makes a big difference.

I recommend that anyone who thinks that Fire evocation spells are completely worthless, to give it a go.

And Lava Warriors are pretty psycho with flaming weapons and an air shield from the dual bless...

I have heard it said on these Boards that for purposes of mind duel communion does not raise astral level.

Is that true? I haven't been able to find any Posts one way or the other regarding it... maybe it's my atrocious spelling.

[Pat Wilcox]

For my part, as far as a Magical Attack pretender, I have yet to see a better one than the Phoenix. I typically go for a Fire9/Air6 Phoenix, especially if I have sacred troops. In any event, once you have Flame Darts, you're pretty much good to go. Air Shield goes up first round if there are archers, and then you just wade through them. If they get to you, you have nice 'personal range' effects to deal with them like Burning Hands or Shockwave (is that what it's called?) and whatnot.

After getting Flame Darts, you can either continue to get better options, or you can switch to get Flame Shield or more defensive options.

Anyway, my thoughts on Artillery Pretenders.

Couldn't You do the same thing with the Virtue Pretender? You lose the immortality, but you gain AWE (+6) and many more equipment slots.

PatWx

[Scott Hebert]

While you can do the same with a Virtue, there are a couple of concerns I have.

First is the fact that you have to research quite a bit more to get an area-effect Air spell. Therefore, it's not as much of an early lead.

Second, the bless effect is important. With the Virtue, your bless effect is purely defensive (thogh perhaps the best defensive). The Phoenix grants a powerful offensive bless effect.

Lastly, the Phoenix is immortal. Unless you get the Evo-4 Air area spell, I doubt the Virtue could stop a rush before she died. The Phoenix has the benefit of not being as worried about that, and it gets rid of afflictions naturally.

For these reasons, I feel that the Phoenix is superior to the Virtue, at least in the early game.

Bayushi Tasogare

[Peter Ebbesen]

Originally posted by Huzurdaddi:

quote:

---

adding 1d6 (closed)

I *really* hope this is true, or as I said there is no defence against Mind Duel.

---

Well, in the an astral favour from Saber Cherry thread it is semi-acknowledged that the 1d6 is closed.

Regarding communion, my understanding is that communion granted astral magic counts - but I do not have real data to back this up with statistical analysis.

[ March 31, 2004, 19:27: Message edited by: Peter Ebbesen ]

[velk]

Using this comparative chart, we see that with the +3 advantage, the Wyrm has a 16.725% chance of surviving each duel, for a 1-(1-0.1675)^n risk of dying against n duelists. For n=6 that is 66.7%, for n=10 the risk of the Wyrm dying is 84.0%.

I assume you mean the wyrm has a 16.7% chance of *NOT* surviving each duel.

In any case 5 + 1d6 being less than 2 + 1d6 occurs for exactly 5 out of 36 possible cases ( 1 and 6, 1 and 5, 1 and 4, 2 and 6, 2 and 5 ). That's 13.8% not 16.7%.

P.S. are we sure a draw kills both of them ? That seems a rather odd result...