Modder brainstorming session

Marty Ward · #1 May 17th, 2001, 02:24 AM

How about in addition to normal engines, tactical engines that give extra combat moves but less strategic moves and vice versa.

Suicide Junkie · #2 May 17th, 2001, 02:27 AM

quote:
How about in addition to normal engines, tactical engines that give extra combat moves but less strategic moves and vice versa.

Use the afterburner ability! yes! and perhaps we could give an engine a "-1" afterburner, so it gives 2 movement in strategic, but gives a total of zero in tactical!

Puke · #3 May 17th, 2001, 04:42 AM

quote:
Originally posted by suicide_junkie:

Quote:

How about in addition to normal engines, tactical engines that give extra combat moves but less strategic moves and vice versa.
Use the afterburner ability! yes! and perhaps we could give an engine a "-1" afterburner, so it gives 2 movement in strategic, but gives a total of zero in tactical!

wow, that would totally change the game. non-combat ships would be MUCH cheaper comparatively, as they would not need tac engines. so scouts and colony ships and transports would be able to be made for a much lower comparative price, but they would be dead in the water if intercepted. it would also mean that ships would have less capacity for weapons and such, unless the size of engines were reduced or capacity was increased

also, if tac engines and strategic engines both counted against the hull's engine limit, the limit would probably have to be raised. that means ships could either go for a balance, or have an incredible tac movement or an incredible strategic movement. this would be another big game changer, as people would build defensive interceptors to protect planets and long range high speed scouts to scout through systems.... Just like when we thought the U2 and later the SR71 were too high and fast to catch, but they got their clocks cleaned by super-sonic short-range mig interceptors!

I think this change is an excellent idea, and it would make things much harder to take, as local defenses would have higher powered ships than could be sent quickly over long distances.

ofcourse, if i remember, afterburners are a 1-component-per-ship-is-effective, and the ability may not even work on ships. just kicking some ideas about though.

Nitram Draw · #4 May 18th, 2001, 01:36 AM

You would definately have to make choices. Since the bonus moves on the standard engines require you to use all of the same type of engines the choices could get hard.
I think it will need a lot of tuning though or else we could have ships with 15 tactical moves or 25 strategic moves.
Now if MM would only expand on the AI ship building routine to allow specific types of ships to be built and add the Fleet composition file someone suggested we could have a really deadly AI!

dogscoff · #5 May 18th, 2001, 01:58 AM

Space is big,
Space is dark,
It's hard to find,
A place to park.

While the above statement is undeniably true,
The universe currently simulated by Space Empires is very small and crowded. Within a few dozen turns, most systems have been colonised and explored, and all the empires are sitting in each others' laps.

How about a mod which creates a more "empty" universe? A universe where meeting another empire does not mean you will be squabbling over one another's home systems within a year. I'm thinking more Alien than Star Wars, more Red Dwarf than Trek, more Dark Star than Bab5.

Here's an idea of how to go about it:

First, the map generator files would have to be modded to make colonisable planets/ systems rarer and farther apart. This would increase their value and force players to look beyond their home systems.
Huge maps with fewer empires would also help.

Now, make colony ships and components far bigger and more expensive. I'm thinking maybe 800-1000 kt, with a 700-900 kt colony component and harsh combat modifiers.

Cargo components for smaller ships should be of limited use, forcing players to use large ships for any serious cargo movment. Adjust supply usage/ storage so that long range travel is really expensive for large ships. Different engines for different ship sizes maybe. (This could fit in nicely with that combat/game movement suggestion a few Posts down.)

Setting up a new colony would now be a *major* investment (and hence a *major* risk)- especially in another system.

New colonies would also be much more vulnerable. This is good, after all it's a long way home. Facilities should take longer to build, so that a new colony does not establish itself and become independent of external defence/ support too quickly.
Each player might only have a few dozen colonies throughout the entire game.

The supply restrictions on bigger ships and cargo restrictions on smaller ones would limit the expansion of infrastructure, so
military domination would then revolve around the strategic placement of fleets, mines, sats, space stations and colonies rather than simply racing to develop the bigger production base and throw ships at the enemy.

Fleets of small ships would be able to roam from system to system and rule over frontier space. However they would be more or less powerless against the defences of established systems. Attacking an enemy system would be an enormous projct.

Remote mining would play a greater role, as would moons, storms and nebulae. Physical warfare would become the Last resort when diplomacy and intel fail, although having good defences around your home systems would be more important than ever.

Some of S_J's mods (ie hardened bulkheads, cheap/ quality mounts) would make good additions since they make ships more individual. Phoenix-D's primitives (still in development, I believe) would also be good here, since their isolation would give them more bargaining power and more effective defences.

It would make for a much slower and more deliberate game, since ships and planets would no longer be "throwaway" items. Combat would be rarer but when it happened it would be truly epic, with loads of allied empires in gigantic battles.

I don't know how the AI would cope with all this but it would be cool for human players - a whole new game with a whole new feel.

Thoughts?

------------------
"Pinky, are you pondering what I'm pondering?"
"Uh, I think so, Brain, but balancing a family and a career ... oooh, it's all too much for me. "

Nitram Draw · #6 May 17th, 2001, 02:07 PM

Nice idea. I think the AI would have a tough time handling it though. I tried a few games with colonize home planet type and atmosphere restrictions, this is as close as you can get to the few and far between colonizable planets now. The AI did not fare so well.
Making colonies more expensive is a good idea, they are basically throwaways as you put it. If you only have 10 each becomes much more valuable. Again, I think the AI would have trouble with fewer colonies and it isn't very efficient in picking colony types but in a game with human opponents it should work real well.
If the number of systems limit is lifted I don't see why most of your ideas cannot be used.

geoschmo · #7 May 17th, 2001, 03:19 PM

Nitpick alert...Nitpick alert...

quote:
Originally posted by Puke:
Just like when we thought the U2 and later the SR71 were too high and fast to catch, but they got their clocks cleaned by super-sonic short-range mig interceptors!

Sorry Puke, the SR71 has never been caught by anything, and the U-2 wasn't cought by another aircraft. Gary Powers was shot down when the Soviet Air Defense sent up a BUNCH of surface to air missles. One managed to get close enough that when it exlploded it damaged his plane. (Of course the shotgun approach also knocked out at least one of the MIGS persuing him as well.)

Doesn't affect the point you were making. I just felt like being picky.

Geo