Ermor themes, too strong?

lonewolf · #1 April 10th, 2004, 10:25 AM

...and that, ladies and gentlemen, must be the best summary of Ermor I've ever ever seen, lurking here.

Norfleet, why not go play something else with equal dedication and report likewise? I think it would be an excellent sequel!

Vynd · #2 April 10th, 2004, 12:03 PM

Another thing I've been noticing about Ermor is that its gem income isn't all that impressive. It can find Death Gems easily enough, if they are out there. But it needs all the Death Gems it can get for summoning more leaders.

Beyond that, all you're going to get are the things your death 3, random 1 mages can find, and whatever you're willing to devote your pretender to searching for. Granted, your Pretender will be an excellent mage so it can probably find lots of magic sites, but that involves a lot of turns devoted to moving around and searching, when you could really use its help in fighting, researching, casting rituals, etc.

Gandalf Parker · #3 April 10th, 2004, 02:26 PM

A nation can be as powerful as they want and still not be unbalancing to Dominions2 as a whole. It can seem unfairly balanced in one game such as Ermor vs Ulm.

But as long as Marignon is a selectable nation, Ermor is not an automatic winner. Marignon doesnt have the problem of investing in more priests than they can use later. They almost cant avoid making lots of priests. And fire magic. For as powerful as Ermor seems, Marignon is an equal in exactly the right areas. But then, Marignon has trouble going against Ulm.

So balance is achieved. Not in nation against nation (to do that would require that all pieces be equal but just with different colors like a game of chess or risk). Ermor is a threat to Ulm, while Ulm can roll over Marignon, and Marignon can bLast Ermor (rock, paper, scissors). It gets deeper than that of course with 17 nations (and another on the way) but the basis is there. Any of the nations can seem out of balance against certain nations, but have another nations seem almost ready-built to counter their best tactics. Pros and Cons.

Oh yeah, and I agree. Norfleet, that is an excellent write-up on Ermor.

[ April 10, 2004, 13:27: Message edited by: Gandalf Parker ]

Endoperez · #4 April 10th, 2004, 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Gandalf Parker:
It gets deeper than that of course with 17 nations (and another on the way) but the basis is there.

Is the "new water nation" really a nation or is it "just" a new theme for Pangaea? Or are you talking about something else?

Gandalf Parker · #5 April 10th, 2004, 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Endoperez:

quote:
Originally posted by Gandalf Parker:
It gets deeper than that of course with 17 nations (and another on the way) but the basis is there.

Is the "new water nation" really a nation or is it "just" a new theme for Pangaea? Or are you talking about something else?

If I remember correctly Kristoffer referred to it as a 3rd water nation. Ive modified my map selection criteria to include maps which have 3 equal-sized oceans in preparation. Although of course we have no idea how long it will be before it shows up.

Chris Byler · #6 April 10th, 2004, 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Cohen:
So on if the real problem is an SC Pretender modify scales for Ermor ... so that Ermor won't gain any points from bad scales ...

Ermor shall have at least the same points of a commond pretender for making his own.

A simpler solution would be to increase the cost of the undead themes (Living Ermor can't ignore bad scales), *if* they really are a problem. I don't think they are - AE/SG have large weaknesses to offset their strengths. Their main trick that's hard to counter is an undead supercombatant god, and it's possible that there should be more and/or better counters to undead supercombatant gods; but that isn't limited to dead Ermors although it may be most severe with them. (They would also be counters to undead supercombatant Wraith Centurions and Vampire Counts too, of course.) It's also very possible that the Vampire Queen and/or Lich Queen should cost more points - this would leave fewer points for their magical powers, even in the hands of an undead Ermor.

Anyway, undead Ermor can't ignore all bad scales: drain is very bad, misfortune is still bad although not as bad as for living nations. They pretty much rely on luck/magic to get a half decent gem income. They do benefit from cold (chill auras) and death (starve the living), and pretty much ignore turmoil and sloth, though.

Graeme Dice · #7 April 10th, 2004, 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Chris Byler:
It's also very possible that the Vampire Queen and/or Lich Queen should cost more points - this would leave fewer points for their magical powers, even in the hands of an undead Ermor.

I think that the Lich Queen is okay the way she is, as she doesn't have any modifiers that make her much harder to kill in melee combat.