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  #1  
Old April 16th, 2004, 06:27 AM

HotNifeThruButr HotNifeThruButr is offline
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Default Re: Thinking about supply - some proposals

My bad, I thought you meant foraging and hunting.
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Old April 16th, 2004, 08:47 AM
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Tuna-Fish Tuna-Fish is offline
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Default Re: Thinking about supply - some proposals

Remember, pillaging gives supplies!

Not much good vs dead ermor though...
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Old April 16th, 2004, 10:48 PM
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LintMan LintMan is offline
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Default Re: Thinking about supply - some proposals

Wauthan - That might be cool to have the supply units in battle, but I'd made them non-combat because it would likely be too easy for opponents to kill them that way, and also because I was thinking that while a supply unit would be a single commander, conceptually it would represent a dozen or more mules and laborers, etc. At the map level, the single-unit representation feels fine, but in a battle, having just a single on-field unit represent a wagon train or mule team doesn't feel right.

As for starving/diseases - keeping myself well-fed is a priority for me, so I perhaps I'm too concerned about doing the same for my troops.

Graeme - Ahh. I didn't realize that about the cauldrons being low-end research and the wineskins being high-end. Even so, the cauldrons seem such a bad deal, I'd just wait to get the wineskins.

About armies getting their food purely locally - surely they must have brought at least *some* food with them. What if they were traveling through areas that had no/few locals to take food from to feed their armies?

As for +supply being a major nature magic advantage, the endless wine skins only require 1 Nature, and 5 gems, so it would hardly be a reason someone would concentrate on nature magic over some other path. There's plenty of other good item uses for those nature gems, like horns of valor or boots of reinvigoration, so I wouldn't think of it as a "serious weakening" of nature magic by providing some alternative way to increase supply.

Chris - Yeah, I probably could put the wine bags on my regular commander units. It would ease the micromanagement. I tend not to because I hate losing magic items in combat when their owners die. (I know, it's ironic that I then concocted a supply unit that is far more vulnerable). I guess I still have the lingering mindset from countless other games that while units are expendable, magic items are a precious/rare/expensive commodity, even though in dom 2, items are actually comparatively cheap and easily produced.

About starving out forts: if my "limited quantity of supply" supply unit implementation was done, it would be *easier* to starve out a fort containing an army using those supply units than it would to be starve out an army loaded with wine bags!

One Last question for everyone - no one commented on my point that this would help the AI. Is AI starvation not seen as a problem? Or do you think this wouldn't help the AI?
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Old April 16th, 2004, 11:01 PM

DeathDaemon DeathDaemon is offline
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Default Re: Thinking about supply - some proposals

The AI always seems to be starving when attacking my non-farmland provinces. I guess they use less important units that are thereby more expendable to stupid things like starvation. I'd love to see supply increased... I love caelum but a cold-3 and lots of archers and the like make for a starving empire. I learned with the jotuns to use more undead than living, but their undead is obviously better than most undead.
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Old April 16th, 2004, 11:28 PM

HotNifeThruButr HotNifeThruButr is offline
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Default Re: Thinking about supply - some proposals

The root of the problem lies in their preference to generally crappy hordes. If they used more elite units, they wouldn't need as much supplies.

Edit: by "more elite units" I meant "less elite units instead of more garbage units"... you get the point.

[ April 16, 2004, 22:35: Message edited by: HotNifeThruButr ]
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Old April 17th, 2004, 12:56 AM

Kel Kel is offline
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Default Re: Thinking about supply - some proposals

Making supply 'easier' has a lot of ramifications on the balance of the game.

It particularly affects the balance of:
1) Nations/pretenders with nature magic
2) Nations which have unusual supply issues (Ermor, Jotun)
3) The value of the supply items themselves (depending on which miplementation you use)
4) All non-eating units (constructs, lifeless, undead, etc.)
5) The value of supply provinces vs. magic site provinces (ie. farmlands vs. wastelands)

That's a lot of balance changes.

- Kel
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Old April 17th, 2004, 10:42 AM
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Chazar Chazar is offline
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Default Re: Thinking about supply - some proposals

I like the supply mechanisms as they are, although I'm usually play Caelum and are always starving...so I usually take growth1 or 2 and the wizard's tower, which I can built quickly at my front lines to give me the supplies I need (200 per Tower).

Sure, I still need some of these Bag of Wines, but I'd rather think that this item is broken, and not the mechanism itself. Supplies should prevent people from amassing troops for too long - and I think that this is a pretty useful idea! Otherwise one amasses a big army only, since it is usually better to attack with a big force instead of a lot of attacks with smaller armies. The supply-mechanism makes you pay for this advantage...

These are just my thoughts. In the essence all I'm saying is that supply is meant to be annoying ;-)
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