TDM-Modpack politics in really big game

Same as Last posting except I noticed something. Most of the AI see me as brotherly, but the ones with *** at the end of the line see me as Moderate. Now what file and item determines that ?

quote:

---

Originally posted by LCC:


0/2 Eee -4/0 not met - any
0/2 Phong -4/0 brotherly MA 15 - any
0/2 Toltayan -4/0 brotherly TR 9 - any ***
0/3 Rage -2/30 moderate war - make peace ? - any ***

10/2 Cue Cappa -4/0 angry war - make peace ? - 20
10/2 Ukra Tal -4/0 brotherly TR 20 - 20 ***
10/2 Colonials -3/0 brotherly P 16 - 15
10/2 Piundan -2/20 receptive MA 15 - 10

20/2 Narn -3/0 brotherly TR 20 - 7
20/2 Toron -3/0 brotherly P 20 - 7 ***
20/2 Sallegra -3/0 murderous war - make peace ? - 7 ***
20/2 Amonkrie -2/30 moderate TA 0 just did - 5

30/2 Abbidon -3/0 not met - 5
30/2 Drushocka -3/0 displeased war - 5
30/2 Cryslonite -2/20 warm TA 7 - 3
30/2 Sergetti -2/30 warm TR 20 - 3 ***

35/5 Pyrochette -3/0 receptive TR 7 hmmm...... - 1
40/2 Krill -2/20 murderous just broke treaty but not war yet - 2
40/5 Xichung -1/20 Murderous (break soon ?) TR 20 - half a colony ? ***

---

Also I am using Version 1.72 TDM-Modpack and release 1.35. Are they compatible ? There is something seriously wrong about my treaty with the Xichung. According to the politics file, the highest treaty they are allowed is non-aggression. So how come I have a TR with them ? Is it because I added them as a player then put them on full ai on and controlled by computer ? I got the treaty by giving a gift of 4000/3000/3000 resources with the treaty as part of the package.

[This message has been edited by LCC (edited 27 May 2001).]

[God Emperor]

LCC,
With respect to maximum treaty level, noticed the same myself in my latest game. The Shadows are limited in their txt file to Military Alliance but have gone into Partnership with the Abbidon.
Something doesnt appear to be operating correctly.....

I just spent four hours reading all the Posts I could find using search on politics etc. My personal level in politics has gone from nonexistant to savvy. I am going to play this game over again from start and see if I can avoid those unnecessary wars. I will post again when I reach turn 30 and compare the original to the revised game.

[Daynarr]

quote:

---

Originally posted by LCC:
Same as Last posting except I noticed something. Most of the AI see me as brotherly, but the ones with *** at the end of the line see me as Moderate. Now what file and item determines that ?

Also I am using Version 1.72 TDM-Modpack and release 1.35. Are they compatible ? There is something seriously wrong about my treaty with the Xichung. According to the politics file, the highest treaty they are allowed is non-aggression. So how come I have a TR with them ? Is it because I added them as a player then put them on full ai on and controlled by computer ? I got the treaty by giving a gift of 4000/3000/3000 resources with the treaty as part of the package.

[This message has been edited by LCC (edited 27 May 2001).]

---

Well, I did make Xi'Chung use only Non-Aggression treaty. In my games they (and Sergetti) never had any treaties higher then they should. I am always adding races as AI player not human (it is important, read on).

There is a bug in the game I have noticed; when you add an empire with human control and then change it to AI control (and turn on all the ministers) the game will not use all of the files for that race, but will use default ones instead. The file I am 100% sure that is not used by such empires is Race_Settings.txt. I wasn't sure if there was any other that the game doesn't use on such empires so I didn't reported the problem. Judging from your findings Race_AI_Politics.txt is not used as well, but Race_AI_Anger is. It would be a good idea to send a mail to MM with explanation of the problem (and possibly a save game) so that Aaron can fix it. I would do it myself, but I simply don't have time.

[This message has been edited by Daynarr (edited 27 May 2001).]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Daynarr:

It would be a good idea to send a mail to MM with explanation of the problem (and possibly a save game) so that Aaron can fix it.

---

Thanks I will.

[Q]

Thank you Daynarr. You just explained the odd behaviour I saw with the Borg race. They should only accept trade and research treaties, but when I monitored them (switched to human player and full AI on) they accepted even partnership. Because they have the logical bloodthirsty happiness type suddenly almost all planets where rioting without prior warning: they were angry about the treaties!
IMO the lack of the warning is another bug we should report to MM or what do you think?

In my really big game it is once again turn 20. Politics are as follows. Initial score/ rank in parenthesis, then current score/ rank (former rank), then current number tech levels, then current systems/ planets/ colony ships, then units/ ships/ bases, then wars-w/ no treaty-n/ treaty-t, then my relation with the race. I am at war with the Cue Cappa and Rage by their choice. I made treaties with the Drushocka and Sallegra and they broke them, but they have not declared war - cautious I guess. The Amonkrie (t17) and Pyrochette (t18) refused treaties. I have not met the Abbidon and Eee but should by turn 30. My homeworld planets all have three base space yards in orbit - one builds more yards while the other two are on repeat build of single warhead small mines. I have space yards 3 so production is faster. I am at 444k minerals defict 17k per turn. My minerals loss due to lack of storage since start of game is half that of my first try since I built yards earlier. I have only 61k organics at +11k because I swapped 200k to the Ukra Tal (organic techs) for 200k radioactives. I have 360k radioactives at deficit 4k. I have planted only the Central Rock/None and strategic sphereworlds. I did a careful evaluation of where I really wanted to plant and organized my colonization plan accordingly. So I deferred the nearest (nexus) planets except Central for my first two waves of colony ships. I am defending Central and nine of the ten nexus sphere worlds. I will get Nizzarum soon - delayed by Sallegra minesweeping and shortage of mines. I sent colony ships into AI home systems accompanied by a transport converted to minelaying carrying 42 mines in the minelayer plus 15 in the colony ship with only four population. I have three colonies in the Rage territory. It will be interesting to see if they can survive cut off from easy reinforcement. Low investment at high risk for very high return. The Last of 39 colonies plants in three turns - 17+ turns sooner than I would have planted in my first slapdash attempt. Except for Ike the original home planets are full on population, about to crank out a transport Battle Cruiser (BC) every 2-3 turns. The Ike nexus homeworlds have just now switched to building missile BC every 3 turns. I have planted then abandoned six ruins worlds searching for useful tech starting four turns ago. Notice that I have swapped ship building for base building. My "fleet" consists of four colony ships, five small transports, and nine small transports converted to minelaying. The new BC transports have range 100 with return option from three supply storage. They will defend themselves by launching up to ten small mines per turn using five minelayer two. They carry 3700 cargo - 500 population with 120 mines or more pop if less mines are available. Rather than refit they may return if I cannot move pop fast enough. At 3400+ 33% per turn I grow 336 every three turns but only move out about 500-600 so it will take a LONG time to shift my population unless transports return. I will send two to each of the colonies, starting with those furthest away. When all colonies have 1000, the leftovers will be split amoung the ten nexus systems for my second stage colonization. When I have learned ship construction 9 then I can build minelaying yard 3 base ships. They will park over unused sphereworlds carrying a cargo of 100 pop plus remainder mines. They will build a colony ship then base yards untill all have at least three base yards. Then on the same turn I will plant them all and see what happens. Until then I will limit myself to 39 colonies, which I know from experience is generally safe. Over forty colonies causes wars to break out even when not MEE. I have been number one since turn 12, and just fell to two this turn because I took time off to upgrade my homeworlds to yard 3.

Sergetti ------ (213.6/16) 494.0/01(01) - 59 - 05/23/3 - 0038/56/07 - 2w/0n/02t - TA Moderate
Clays(me) ---- (213.0/18) 462.8/02(02) - 58 - 20/30/? - 1426/40/18 - 3w/1n/09t - myself - 1st try
Clays(me) ---- (213.0/18) 472.2/02(02) - 59 - 28/36/4 - 1726/18/39 - 2w/4n/11t - myself - current
Toltayan ----- (213.1/07) 449.9/03(14) - 44 - 05/21/1 - 0184/49/00 - 2w/0n/01t - TA Warm
Pyrochette --- (287.6/01) 432.4/04(04) - 60 - 05/21/3 - 0365/25/05 - 1w/2n/00t - none - Murderous
Drushocka ---- (213.9/15) 430.8/05(09) - 47 - 06/32/0 - 0193/38/00 - 0w/5n/00t - none - Moderate
Abbidon ------ (217.2/13) 418.2/06(10) - 38 - 04/32/3 - 0198/34/00 - 0w/1n/00t - not met
Rage --------- (261.7/03) 408.4/07(05) - 52 - 09/22/2 - 0505/41/03 - 2w/2n/02t - War Murderous
Cryslonite ---- (218.9/12) 390.3/08(06) - 51 - 06/20/1 - 0192/30/02 - 1w/1n/02t - TR Warm
Narn --------- (257.6/04) 387.0/09(13) - 50 - 11/14/2 - 0292/30/02 - 1w/2n/03t - TR Warm
Amonkrie ----- (235.5/05) 386.6/10(08) - 53 - 03/44/2 - 0494/22/00 - 0w/2n/00t - none - Moderate
Cue Cappa --- (211.7/20) 381.9/11(15) - 42 - 06/21/1 - 0116/33/03 - 2w/0n/10t - War Angry
Krill ---------- (220.1/11) 375.5/12(03) - 41 - 04/18/1 - 0069/41/00 - 1w/0n/05t - TR Moderate
Toron -------- (278.8/02) 366.9/13(11) - 61 - 06/16/2 - 0662/23/02 - 2w/3n/06t - TA Receptive
Sallegra ------ (220.2/10) 348.3/14(07) - 51 - 05/27/1 - 0355/20/03 - 1w/6n/02t - none - Cool
Eee ---------- (223.9/08) 346.3/15(12) - 35 - 09/34/4 - 0246/10/00 - 0w/1n/00t - not met
Phong -------- (228.3/06) 333.2/16(18) - 43 - 04/16/2 - 0114/22/00 - 1w/1n/1t - TA Moderate
Xi Chung ----- (212.1/19) 332.5/17(16) - 39 - 06/16/1 - 1187/41/03 - 2w/0n/3t - TA Murderous
Piundan ------ (226.8/07) 328.1/18(17) - 49 - 06/15/3 - 1053/30/01 - 1w/0n/2t - TR Warm
Colonials ----- (220.5/09) 264.5/19(19) - 52 - 05/14/0 - 1379/13/01 - 1w/2n/2t - TA Warm
Ukra Tal ----- (216.0/14) 232.9/20(20) - 39 - 06/15/0 - 0065/16/00 - 2w/2n/3t - MA Brotherly

I am about to trade colonization tech for other techs to everybody and see what I can get. Researching by myself takes too long, and the trade with the Ukra Tal shows how highly they are valued. I swapped Gas Colony and PD 5 for Ice colony with a MA. Since the AI is ignoring the worlds they can already colonize and breathe, then I doubt that any great increase in their colonization rate will occur....
The following races swapped ships for units, lowering their score/rank - Sallegra (+178/-9/-3)
The following races swapped units for ships - raising their score/rank - Narn (-4/+5), Toltayan (-59,+19),
Other races increased both ships and units, raising their rank - Drushocka (+95/+10/-3), Abbidon (+30/+5/-1), Cue Cappa (+10/+10)
The Krill are starting to lose ground in their war against the Ukra Tal due to my trade of PD (lost 11 ships), but they have glassed two Ukra Tal homes already. But that is better for the Ukra than before when they lost three....
The Cryslonite have lost more (54 units and 11 ships) in their war against the Toltayan. See Toltayan above.
Basically unchanged - Sergetti, Pyrochette, Rage, Amonkrie, Toron, Eee, Xichung, Piundan, Colonials.
So far as colonization goes, I have six more than before, the Drushocka have seven more, and everybody else is within three of same. I should not have made peace with the buggers after they broke treaty the first time. Oh well, it was worth a try. I thought some of those wars were unnecessary, but it looks like I was wrong.
P.S. Was it worth nine days ? I think so! It knocks at least 30 turns off my estimated blitz date....
P.P.S. Also see postings "Colony in enemy territory" "Basic Stategy" (18 May), and "really big games".



[This message has been edited by LCC (edited 01 June 2001).]