Advice on Machaka appreciated

[Cainehill]

Originally posted by tinkthank:

- what to do with their so-called "warriors". Fodder is nice, but what do I do early game? It seems all I have is fodder. Am I supposed to do lots of blindness/7-year-fever inducing hit-and-run attacks to weaken em up until I get juicier troops?

Personally, I go with the sacred Black Hunters; even without a strong bless, they're very solid cavalry. High morale, very high armor, solid damage. Add a good bless, and they're awesome.

Other troops? Massed archers - not great, but they don't do much damage to your own heavily armored troops.

And personally, with Machaka, I use a lot of summoned troops. Easy access to magicks for reanimating the dead, creating vine men (later ogres - both using the Vine Crown for extra effect), creating manikins, etc. Always nice to have front line troops that won't break, and that don't cost upkeep.

- My assassin seems very nice, I'd like to use him, but he's so expensive, capital only, and still dies easily to Indy normalo commanders without decent equipment (and he already starts with *bane blades*). What do I do wrong?

I don't use assassins much - but the bane spider is great for eliminating independent commanders. Takes down even mounted commanders about 50% of the time.

- PD. I know I like nations with stronger PD [...]
- How many Spies?

Nothing to say about Machaka's PD - it sucks. And since I don't use nearly enough spies, my answer wouldn't do you any good.

- Im not used to non-priestly mages (also play Tien S&A a lot); any tips?

With a little research, you have access to some nice spells, even if you have to give your mages some gems. Once you have Summon Earth Power and Summon Phoenix Power(?), even the Sorceress can cast good spells like fireball, magma bolts, etc.
Also, Blindness, Earth Grip, and Tangle Vines shouldn't be forgotten about.

Finally - a good bless strategy works wonders with those hunter lords and black hunters. Water 9 for example, to boost their defense and let them reach the enemy faster and get extra attacks. Earth 4, so they get their fatigue back more quickly. (Alternatively - E9 for more armor protection, bringing them to a whopping 26) The units may be expensive, but great. Don't forget to consider making a Hunter Lord your prophet. This allows a standalone group of Black Hunters to take provinces all by themselves; the prophet blesses them, and is even more of a brute from prophet bonuses. Just don't forget to give him a little extra oomph - bracers of defense, a lucky amulet, maybe a magic weapon. Improve the gear as the game goes forward.

HtH.

[tinkthank]

Hey thanks very much again.
I suppose my problem is the reluctance to rely on hoplites so much, simply because I find them so unsexy. But surely they are a great unit.

Blitz: I have never been able to script "change shape" -- where and how can one do that?

[Nagot Gick Fel]

Originally posted by tinkthank:
I have never been able to script "change shape" -- where and how can one do that?

You can't. They change shape automatically when wounded in battle. The sorceress heroin can change shape at will, though.

[En Forcer]

I'm having a lot of fun with these guys actually. I have a rainbow sage with 4 in everything and I've been having decent results with the shortbowmen and the hoplites have been everything people have said they are. So far I haven't put the spider troops to use yet but it's only turn 25.

It's been a struggle to survive but that has made it all the more enjoyable. Sometimes I wonder about the guys who post specific roadmaps and by turn 10 they have all this crap accomplished. I'm just glad to be holding my borders at that point!

[PvK]

Not sexy? Machaka priests are great!

* The Ear is stealthy +10 and carries a shortsword and has the fighting skill of an elite warrior. Preaching in enemy territory can be risky, though you can stick to borders and independent provinces and script Retreat.

* The Eye costs only as much as an independent priest, and can do all a priest can, but is also an extremely skilled fighter armed with a two-handed flail! For players who find patrolling useful for various things, +15 patrol bonus for a unit with the upkeep cost of 2.5 regular troops is rather good, too. Leadership 25 isn't bad, either. An extremely versatile unit - can be a priest, a patrol squad, a commander, or a tough blessed fighter, whenever those roles are needed. Gotta be one of the best deals around, for players who notice.

* The Voice has holy 3, sacrificing, competent fighting skills, and leadership of 50! Rather useful.

* They all have forest survival.

Really very good all around.

Machaka is a great nation, and not difficult to figure out how to use well.

Ya the PD is flimsy, though it's also cheap cannon fodder since you get two per point. PD 5 is 15 gold for 10 regenerating cannon fodder, which is a good deal up to that point, and stacked with other units is useful. Eventually you can get spells which can make up for their lack of armor, too, at which point the unarmored units suddenly become more serious.

Blessed hunter spiders, and/or Hunter Lords with magic items, can be very potent. The ordinary spiders are also good - just a few can do a lot with their web.

PvK

[ April 30, 2004, 08:26: Message edited by: PvK ]

[tinkthank]

OK, thank you. I almost never use my commanders as warriors, so that is my problem. Perhaps they are sexier than I thought. I just hate having my commanders die or get seriously wounded as a tradeoff for killing 2-3 enemy light infantry, and it seems that is what happens when I have commanders fight. That is why I almost invariably purchase mage-type commanders, never the "standard" type of centurion-leader. This, I suppose, is my problem in general.
I'll try your ideas out.
So do you forge them all items, or what?
Thank you.

[En Forcer]

To add a little more here, I had a large engagement with ULM Last night. They had about 100 various units, heavy infantry, longdeads, siege engineers, and priests.

Generally I really fear their hvy inf as my arrows bounce off of them and they cut through a lot of units like butter. But my hoplites really saved the day and held the line against them (the ONLY unit to cause me hoplite casualties by the way).

I also had a screen of 30 vinemen who are good for distracting enemy archers and fast units that go for the closest guys. But the downside (right now) is that I burn those fellas up faster than I can make them. But it's nice to have a little fodder for the first two turns.

So really my focus now is to make my shortbowmen more effective. I'm researching for fire arrows and then wind guide so they will be more dangerous. Because considering how cheap their archers are, I can field a squad of 200 in no time.

[ April 30, 2004, 14:59: Message edited by: En Forcer ]

[PvK]

Originally posted by tinkthank:
OK, thank you. I almost never use my commanders as warriors, so that is my problem. Perhaps they are sexier than I thought. I just hate having my commanders die or get seriously wounded as a tradeoff for killing 2-3 enemy light infantry, and it seems that is what happens when I have commanders fight. That is why I almost invariably purchase mage-type commanders, never the "standard" type of centurion-leader. This, I suppose, is my problem in general.
I'll try your ideas out.
So do you forge them all items, or what?
Thank you.

I think many players don't use many fighter-commanders unless they are going all-out for a supercombatant. I tend to like making thugs, but I think either approach is valid.

When I mention that some of the Machaka priests have good fighting skills, that doesn't mean I send them into hand-to-hand combat often, nor do many of mine have magic items. I was just listing what makes them interesting and versatile. However if for example you had to banish a lot of undead, some of your Eye priests could get a lot of experience. Added on top of level-12 base fighting skills, they could be given some armor and perhaps other toys and suddenly be quite tough, especially if you have some bless effects.

Or, their skills can just be good for self-defense. Ordinary priests die when caught be some pesky unit that snuck into the rear, but an Eye priest may be able to take them out.

The Hoplite Commanders have good equipment already. So do the Hunter Lords, but when you add a few items to your Hunter Lords, possibly combined with bless effects and/or spells, they can start to be very potent melee units. One of mine just did in several Ulm cavalry and Guardians in a massive knock-down drag-out MP battle. The cheap cannon fodder and plant summons did their job of dying and absorbing enemy attacks, occupying and tiring the enemy. The Hoplites held the field, probably thanks to many castings of Fanatacism by my Voice Prophet (who died).

PvK

[Cainehill]

Originally posted by PvK:
Or, their skills can just be good for self-defense. Ordinary priests die when caught be some pesky unit that snuck into the rear, but an Eye priest may be able to take them out.

Heh. In a couple of MP games I have going now, I've had friars make it into the hall of fame. A lucky battle or two, they have kills to their name, and ... they tend to get Heroic Endurance. I suspect the bless effects may've helped : Marignon in both games, one with F9/S9 and the other F9/Air 6 or 7.

Kind of amusing to me, seeing what I know is friars in the HoF post turn 20, with 6-9 human players in the game.

Given Machaka's better combat stats for the priests, it's probably easier and better to try to do the same with them.

[Pirateiam]

Here is my Machaka strategy:

Create a typical Main army just like some of the posters have explained but also creat a 8-10 equipped assassin army also. Keep this group in front of your main army and just before you main army strikes set them to assasinate. The assasinations take place before the armies fight. Even if you are only 50% succesful taking out 4-5 commanders or mages can cripple an army that has to fight right after that.