Paper, Rock, Marignon!

[Anglachel]

Originally posted by Norfleet:
On the other hand, you can make this work for you, provided you do not allow Ermor to intimidate you: People will give you their gold, their gems, their provinces, and leave you alone and unmolested, so long as you profess to be fighting Ermor. Suckers.

Rofl. Funny stuff.

[Graeme Dice]

Originally posted by Cohen:
The Ermor problem (or better, advantage) is that he can take a lot of points from scales, getting 600 points more or less (Turmoil 3, Death 3, Sloth 3, Cold 3 = 480.

C'Tis can do nearly exactly the same thing, taking order 3, sloth 3, heat 2, and misfortune 2 with Miasma and a dominion strength of 9 or 10.

[Norfleet]

Originally posted by PvK:
It doesn't have to be entirely one-dimensional. The same units enemies can summon to survive in Ermorian dominion, can be summoned by Ermor, particularly if the Ermorian pretender is a rainbow mage who site-searches.

Yes, it possible for the pretender to summon other troops, but, unfortunately, the pretender is but a single mage who is usually very, very busy. This cannot begin to compete on even footing with nations that can afford to summon these same troops using their expendable national mages....and you will get little help from Ermor's nationals, as most of their skills are entirely in death magic, with but a single random on the Elders.

It's also surprisingly easy to actually work out PEACE with Ermor: Everyone hates Ermor, so Ermor will be likely to happily accept whatever friends it can get. As long as your dominion is not weak, and you are able to keep its destructive dominion out of your lands, a mutually beneficial relationship can be had. Plus you can tell everyone else that you're trying to attack Ermor and get them to give you stuff.

[Kel]

Hmm, wonder if anyone will believe me when i say I was *not* trying to set off another round of Ermor strength/weakness debates ? I honestly was not trying to make a debate on that and I am not even necessarily sure myself (though I still have my own opinions on it).

In fact...even if they are somewhat over-powered, whatever you think about it, it would have less effect on games (the ones I have experienced, anyway) then the perception that they are...or whatever it is that causes the game to become World vs. Ermor (I think there are multiple reasons, actually).

In a complex, deep game with good variety, there aer inevitably going ot be balance issues, it's unavoidable and understandable. I *like* the idea that some nations work differently with certain rules. I would certainly not want to see every nation dumbed down into LI and HI

The only thing I don't like is that Ermor, in a large game, makes games play pretty similary. Frankly, other than just not playing large games, I don't even have a solution ! Yeah, shoot me, it was just a comment, should have known it would turn into an Ermor pro/con debate

- Kel

[Norfleet]

Originally posted by Kel:
The only thing I don't like is that Ermor, in a large game, makes games play pretty similary. Frankly, other than just not playing large games, I don't even have a solution ! Yeah, shoot me, it was just a comment, should have known it would turn into an Ermor pro/con debate

Large games with Ermor game the game play similarly because everyone's gut reaction to Ermor tends to be to try and organize against them. Is it a surprise, therefore, that when half your players are banding together in mortal terror against Ermor, that the game will unfold similarly?

Not buying into the hysteria can be very profitable for you. You merely need to be aware that the hysteria will exist, and that it can be exploited for your own ends.

[Kel]

Originally posted by Norfleet:
Large games with Ermor game the game play similarly because everyone's gut reaction to Ermor tends to be to try and organize against them. Is it a surprise, therefore, that when half your players are banding together in mortal terror against Ermor, that the game will unfold similarly?

It's not a surprise at all.

That's the problem

- Kel

[Norfleet]

Originally posted by Kel:
It's not a surprise at all.

That's the problem

Once again, I place the blame clearly on tight pants.

If your players all *WANT* to gang up on Ermor, you're going to have a gang-up on Ermor. It's purely psychological, there's absolutely no reason for this.