Dev Thinking on Balance?

[Pirateiam]

Originally posted by Norfleet:

quote:

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Originally posted by Pirateiam:
Well Norfleet I will not comment on your insult since from all the other Posts I have read I know how disturbed you are and mental illnesses are not something to make fun of. Answer this simple question - What is your pretendar in this game???? Case closed

And why do you think I am keenly aware of exactly how to rip one apart and send it crashing to the ground in a mangled heap? Besides, I have others, like a Vanheim game where I *HAVE* in fact, been facing down a VQ much like the one you describe, and am currently kicking its *** all over the map. I'm an Allfather there.

The problem is that YOU ARE NOT TRYING! It's a very common attitude amongst players these days: When they start losing to something on a regular basis, rather than countering it, they'd rather complain about how it's so awful. Meanwhile, the rest of us have a myriad arsenal of ways to counter, and are unintimidated. This doesn't invalidate that the strategy has great deal of merit to it, but it's not unstoppable....unless you can't be bothered to try.

Frankly, as I've pointed out, a strategy that fails even when not specifically countered is absolutely crap and utterly worthless. Hell, a dozen scouts with herald lances can easily burn out a VQ...and their scripts don't run out because they have NOTHING ELSE THEY CAN CAST.

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Sigh... I am trying. I spend many hours playing around with trying to come up with counters to the VQ but Alchemist Ulm sure is not on the list. I was meesing around with Ulm GC in this game and was hoping not to run into a SG Ermor. Sorry if I like to try crazy strategies not all of us are playing this to win everytime but just to have some fun....but you will never understand this.

[Huzurdaddi]

Many pretenders can use these spells to conquer independent provinces. Being able to conquer an independent province a turn with your pretender is commonplace.

Really? Please list.

Against indep strength 1? Almost all non humans.
Against indep strenth 3? Quite a few.
Against indep strength 9? 1 ( 2 if you are a water nation ).

No, really. I want to hear about all of these pretenders that can stomp indeps down flat. No, please. Oh and try to do it with something like 100 Research points please. Heck I'll give you 150.

[Graeme Dice]

Originally posted by Norfleet:
Meanwhile, the rest of us have a myriad arsenal of ways to counter, and are unintimidated.

You claim that this "myriad arsenal" exists. I've yet to see anything besides send another SC after it. Most spell based strategies are ruined by the AI after all.

Hell, a dozen scouts with herald lances can easily burn out a VQ...and their scripts don't run out because they have NOTHING ELSE THEY CAN CAST.

I wasn't aware that 120 astral pearls was "easy". And no, it's not easy even if you have that many, since they only do 12 armor piercing damage each.

[ May 04, 2004, 20:39: Message edited by: Graeme Dice ]

[Gandalf Parker]

be careful

If you wish to continue this conversation you will need to avoid personal slanders.

[Norfleet]

Originally posted by Huzurdaddi:

quote:

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Many pretenders can use these spells to conquer independent provinces. Being able to conquer an independent province a turn with your pretender is commonplace.

Really? Please list.

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Okay, so let's assume an average, commonly favored independent setting of 6. I think 6 is a fair benchmark, because it seems to be the prevalent setting of most MP games.

Pretenders that I have found can do the job against common independents, not including Tritons and other rare flier-infested provinces, but including provinces that may contain knights) with nothing higher than L3 research, a sum, under normal research conditions, of 120 RPs, assuming that the designer of the pretender has specifically tweaked his chassis for battle, and is attempting to operate solo, or with only very limited support (no army, at most maybe an attending mage or priest who will may search or build in the province after battle):

Allfather
Carrion Dragon
Colossal Head
Ghost King
Lord of the Wild
Monolith
Mother of Tuathas
Nataraja(Arco)
Vampire Queen

These pretenders are either unlikely to suffer from afflictions, can recover from any afflictions taken, or are not greatly affected by many of the afflictions (limping Monolith).

Other pretenders that can attempt the job, as long as excessive knights are avoided, with slightly higher levels of research or items, or with more accompanying chaff, afflictions are willing to be risked, or occasional failure acceptable:

Green Dragon
Medusa
Prince of Death
Phoenix
Titan(male)
Virtue

So between first-class and second-class choices, you have a fair number of pretenders to choose from. Note that all of these assume that you have tweaked for BATTLE as a primary objective, and filling national magic gaps or attaining a useful blessing as secondary. Air blessings and nature blessings are, however, synergistic with combat prowess.

[Catquiet]

Originally posted by Kristoffer O:

My current thoughts:
Clam. Overpowered particulary in large games where there are players that are not prepared for it.

Clam hoarding: boring. One shouldn't have to prevent people from doing it.

Does this mean you are going to address clam hoarding in a patch or not?

Steroids : an unfair advantage for the althetes who use them

Steroid Use : dangerously unhealthly. One shouldn't have to prevent people from doing it. (but I doubt they are going to stop unless the people in charge do something)

[ May 04, 2004, 22:10: Message edited by: Catquiet ]

Originally posted by Catquiet:
Does this mean you are going to address clam hoarding in a patch or not?

Steroids : an unfair advantage for the althetes who use them

Steroid Use : dangerous unhealthly. One shouldn't have to prevent people from doing it. (but I doubt they are going to stop unless the people in charge do something)

2x4: A common building material used in many forms of construction for various structures and items.

2x4 Use: Some people use 2x4's to hit people, preferably in the knees or back. The makers of 2x4's should implement something to stop them since they arn't going to stop themselves.