SCs other than the vq

archaeolept · #1 May 4th, 2004, 10:50 PM

of course there are many ways to deal w/ a VQ. however, none of them really do anything, since she pops up again immediately. yah, dust to dust can work, especially en masse. Another SC can work, as long as you've been pursuing a clam/wish strategy as well such that you can stand up to her "magic power" X5 and "power". oh, and also when your pretender is killed, as will happen some good percentage of the time, you gotta pay the price. Not the VQ though.

Quote:

Are you sure this isn't what's happening to YOU? I seem to notice that you've played many of your games against, well, me. In fact, you cite my own VQ as the canonical example. Are you sure it is not YOU who needs to get out more?

given the large number of public games around here that you play in, it would be rather difficult to avoid you.

[ May 04, 2004, 21:51: Message edited by: archaeolept ]

Norfleet · #2 May 4th, 2004, 10:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Graeme Dice:
I've had 10 astral 2 mages cast paralyze for a dozen turns in a row instead of casting solar rays.

This is clearly the fault of the stupid spellcasting AI (which fails to consider odds of success when picking a spell, and does not sufficiently prioritize killing things), and the damnable 5-spell script limit, which in combination with the above, basically assures that most mages will not do anything intelligent past either the 3rd, or 5th, turn of combat.

I think we are all in agreement on the above issues.

Norfleet · #3 May 4th, 2004, 10:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by archaeolept:
given the large number of public games around here that you play in, it would be rather difficult to avoid you.

So you acknowledge that I play often, generally with the same strategy, and thus have had the opportunity to hone it specifically, and that my effectiveness may be due more to my practice and experience, compared to your relative lack thereof, rather than the fact that VQs and clams are completely and utterly broken, as demonstrated by the regular failures of my imitators to triumph by this means even when I do not play the VQ?

#4 May 4th, 2004, 10:59 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by archaeolept:
of course there are many ways to deal w/ a VQ. however, none of them really do anything, since she pops up again immediately. yah, dust to dust can work, especially en masse. Another SC can work, as long as you've been pursuing a clam/wish strategy as well such that you can stand up to her "magic power" X5 and "power". oh, and also when your pretender is killed, as will happen some good percentage of the time, you gotta pay the price. Not the VQ though.

I wish you people would try to stick to your argument. When someone details a strategy that works to kill them that is easily implemented by 75% of the nations, suddenly the argument is changed "Well what do you do if they have alot of Dominion and build castles, huh? I obviously can't stop that either", then if that is answered it's "Well what do you do if they pour 600 astrals by wishing in to them, eh? I obviously can't stop that either".

You have failed repeatedly to make your arguments that it is overpowered by any estimate. The very first of which is to define overpowered. It is Powerful and it does fill a niche and it is being effectively used by at least 1, if not more people. But since when is that overpowered? The same can be said for any number of different features in the game.

archaeolept · #5 May 4th, 2004, 11:02 PM

No.

The strat is abusive and broken. That you are so wedded to it indicates merely something concerning your psychology.

That people can use VQ's ineffectively is trivially true, and quite irrelevant.

Frankly, the game would be much better if VQs and clams were simply disposed of, like trash.

Gandalf Parker · #6 May 4th, 2004, 11:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by archaeolept:
I'm quite amazed by how clueless the beta-testers seem to be about all this. I guess this is just an endemic problem w/ any small closed community - certain activities will become standard, and new variants just won't occur to those living inside the gates. As well, I would think that certain unbalanced strats would be negated but only by the fact that beta-testers are consistently and coherently able to pursue advanced strategies and tactics. The game might still be unbalanced for the vast majority of players even if a group of skilled beta-testers is able to get around an inbalance.

Do you consider what you just said to be opinionated? obnoxious? offensive? I just thought Id ask in case things went further in that direction. I wouldnt want you to be unaware of the point where things went wrong.

The best-testing group has a wide variety of testers. Mass swarmers, formula fiends, nitpickys (for spelling and little stat errors), game-killer testers, and wasted-stuff boosters. Besides the point of 3 different language Groups, and 5 operating systems.

Besides all that, the devs are quite active and willing to listen to this group here (some have already answered in this thread in case you werent aware).

Please, if you fail to convince the majority how correct you are, then rant against them softly.

archaeolept · #7 May 4th, 2004, 11:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Zen:

quote:
Originally posted by archaeolept:
of course there are many ways to deal w/ a VQ. however, none of them really do anything, since she pops up again immediately. yah, dust to dust can work, especially en masse. Another SC can work, as long as you've been pursuing a clam/wish strategy as well such that you can stand up to her "magic power" X5 and "power". oh, and also when your pretender is killed, as will happen some good percentage of the time, you gotta pay the price. Not the VQ though.

I wish you people would try to stick to your argument. When someone details a strategy that works to kill them that is easily implemented by 75% of the nations, suddenly the argument is changed "Well what do you do if they have alot of Dominion and build castles, huh? I obviously can't stop that either", then if that is answered it's "Well what do you do if they pour 600 astrals by wishing in to them, eh? I obviously can't stop that either".

You have failed repeatedly to make your arguments that it is overpowered by any estimate. The very first of which is to define overpowered. It is Powerful and it does fill a niche and it is being effectively used by at least 1, if not more people. But since when is that overpowered? The same can be said for any number of different features in the game.

I wasn't aware that I was a card-carrying member of "you people". The strat being discussed, and discussed implicitly for weeks, is precisely the combo of VQ (best w/ ermor), clams, and castling. I know what strat i'm talking about.

What counter strat have you layed out for dealing w/ the Norfleet combo? that's all I care about, since that's pretty well all I've been playing against for the past few weeks. How did you take out his ermorian castles? I mean, I'm sure you must have some experience w/ it...

Quote:

you have failed repeatedly to make your arguments that it is overpowered by any estimate

I'm sorry? I believe the only time I have made an argument is in my prior post in this thread. how is that repeatedly? the only "repetition" is in your ducking the problem and being unable to lay out a reasonable and viable counter-strat to the (usually ermorian) uber-VQ/endless castles/wish clamming strat. And, hell, even if a counter strat can be detailed, this does not logically entail that there is a balance.

Again, how was it that you personally dealt w/ norfleet's strat? specifically.