VQ Counters - NO Debates

[PhilD]

Not an expert by any means, but Staff of Storms should keep the VQ walking all across the battlefield. If you have any kind of long-range, high-precision spells, you might get her before she comes through the (preferably undead) fodder around your mages.

The Staff of Storms is also a pretty good item by itself, so it's not like it's a wasted investment.

[Graeme Dice]

Originally posted by Tuna-Fish:
Dust to dust, 22 armour negating damage with no mr roll. Hit twice and it's over. Simple?

It's nice in theory, but doesn't work in practice. Your mages refuse to cast dust to dust when there are friendly undead in the area, and are much more likely to animate dead if there aren't.

[Graeme Dice]

Originally posted by Daynarr:
Another way is to use lots of lifeless summons (or units if you can buy them) that she can't drain. After VQ casts buffs, she will have pretty high fatigue - use that to swarm her with lifeless army. Of course, this is not doable at the very start.

It's very unlikely that longdead will be able to do enough damage to her to get through a protection of 20-30, especially if she has a fireshield.

[Gandalf Parker]

Im just wondering but has anyone run a --superhost game looping thru the turns to see if the VQ actually wins the game? It would provide some unbiased hard numbers. Probably small fast games are covered but do we have an idea about larger long-running games with all the races in it?

[ May 05, 2004, 15:50: Message edited by: Gandalf Parker ]

[archaeolept]

Originally posted by Graeme Dice:

quote:

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Originally posted by Daynarr:
Another way is to use lots of lifeless summons (or units if you can buy them) that she can't drain. After VQ casts buffs, she will have pretty high fatigue - use that to swarm her with lifeless army. Of course, this is not doable at the very start.

It's very unlikely that longdead will be able to do enough damage to her to get through a protection of 20-30, especially if she has a fireshield.

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yeah, and you're lucky if that's all she has. Armor of 30+ would be standard in the full strat by the midgame. defense the same, + fireshield, and, of course, the 5+ mirror images and mistform. I really doubt that masses of fodder undead could do anything to her, though I may be wrong. She is flying, and is likely attacking the rear as well...

as far as counters, other than trying to mimick the VQ formula itself, I take Marignon w/ a Baphomet F9 S9 blessing, and create hordes of flaming fate-twisted flagellants. that works, but is not exactly generally applicable.

[ May 05, 2004, 16:10: Message edited by: archaeolept ]

[Norfleet]

Originally posted by PhilD:
Not an expert by any means, but Staff of Storms should keep the VQ walking all across the battlefield. If you have any kind of long-range, high-precision spells, you might get her before she comes through the (preferably undead) fodder around your mages.

Preventing the VQ from flying can actually be counterproductive, since then it will not immediately outrun its fodder and present itself as a target for your mages. I'm not saying you should NEVER ground it, but be aware that doing so CAN be counterproductive.

[PvK]

Other ideas:

Blindness

Paralysis

Black Bow of Betulf

the missile weapon that kills in one shot

capturing her home castle

unliving summons

outnumbering with own summoned Vampire Lords

Liches and Bog Mummies can do similar things, perhaps better when they have high built-in protection, which can be harder to counter than etherealness

magic weapons (bypass ethereal)

Death summons (several relatively cheap and skilled warriors available with magic weapons included and no life for VQ to drain)