VQ Counters - NO Debates

Blitz · #1 May 5th, 2004, 10:13 PM

Wights are one of my favorite units anyway, especially with Jotenhiem. That, or just go with Ice Devils (Blood 5? BBBWWW) and you get your own SC. Two or Three of those with winged boots. Quickness and go. I basicly shoot for them anyways, might as well use them against the VQ.

As for your own SC?

Put the Wight Blades away and get some Herald Lances Give someone a Totem Shield. Eye Shields will blind her. The Harvest Blade (artifact, BBBN hits automaticaly) will take off her legs, while Picus's Axe of Rulership (artifact, DDE) will do the same for her arms.

Something I haven't tried but probably isn't a bad idea...

Angelic host summons 5 angels, all with flambeaus. They fly too. Not sure if FR negates flambeau damage or just the holy pyre, but this might work.

Lastly, if you are in the real lategame any naked VQ won't stand a chance against a few iron dragons.

Of course she'll be back next turn, but I never said there weren't counters.

AhhhFresh · #2 May 5th, 2004, 10:43 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Blitz:
Angelic host summons 5 angels, all with flambeaus. They fly too. Not sure if FR negates flambeau damage or just the holy pyre, but this might work.

I'm suprised no one else has commented on this... it seems like a spell/summon that is designed specifically for undead SC's.

The fact that it's magic movement, means all you have to do is know where she is.

However, I haven't used them much... so I'm not sure how powerful it is... I remember not being terribly impressed, but then I didn't use them to fight undead... and it costs 50 Astral, which is little much to chain cast.

Gandalf Parker · #3 May 5th, 2004, 11:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by AhhhFresh:

quote:
Originally posted by Blitz:
Angelic host summons 5 angels, all with flambeaus. They fly too. Not sure if FR negates flambeau damage or just the holy pyre, but this might work.

I'm suprised no one else has commented on this... it seems like a spell/summon that is designed specifically for undead SC's.

Thats one of the reasons I thought the VA was more of a small-map fast-game problem. There are all kinds of interesting things far up the research ladder. I dont tend to play many games that far so I couldnt remember any specifically

AhhhFresh · #4 May 5th, 2004, 11:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Gandalf Parker:

quote:
Originally posted by AhhhFresh:

quote:
Originally posted by Blitz:
Angelic host summons 5 angels, all with flambeaus. They fly too. Not sure if FR negates flambeau damage or just the holy pyre, but this might work.

I'm suprised no one else has commented on this... it seems like a spell/summon that is designed specifically for undead SC's.
Thats one of the reasons I thought the VA was more of a small-map fast-game problem. There are all kinds of interesting things far up the research ladder. I dont tend to play many games that far so I couldnt remember any specifically

I haven't tested it fully, only pulled out a game where I could cast it and checked their stats... but that quick check seems to indicate that it would work pretty well. While the angels stats aren't all that great...

1) The Archangel leaders are Lvl 4 Priests
2) Angels fly (no chance for VQ buffing)
3) They are equiped with a magic weapon that does (13+13)x3 AP damage to undead
4) You can summon them to any province
5) The spell uses magic movement, so unless she uses teleport or something, you know that you will catch her
6) They stick around after the battle

I would guess that knowing where the VQ is, you could say: cast it 3 times in one turn(3 Priests and 18 angels) on that province, and come away with 0 casualties and a temporarily dead VQ.

If she had chaff with her, that would be problematic, as you can't give the angels orders ahead of time...

And I'm not sure how well it would work with a fully decked out VQ... but the only real defense I see, would be a (heh) high defense... which isn't that easy for a VQ.

AND you need several Astral 5 mages, 50 Astral gems for each casting, as well as Conj 7...

Is there something I'm missing? What's the fatal flaw?

[ May 05, 2004, 22:49: Message edited by: AhhhFresh ]

Blitz · #5 May 5th, 2004, 11:52 PM

Quote:

Is there something I'm missing? What's the fatal flaw?

The fatal flaw is you are down 50 astral pearls, probably an angel or two and the VQ loses... a battle. Maybe a province. There's no reason for that VQ not to charge back into that same province the very next turn, regardless of how futile the odds seem to be against winning.

Furthermore, I have my doubts as to if the strategy works. Maybe I'll test it out and see.

Gandalf Parker · #6 May 5th, 2004, 11:59 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Blitz:

quote:
Is there something I'm missing? What's the fatal flaw?

The fatal flaw is you are down 50 astral pearls, probably an angel or two and the VQ loses... a battle. Maybe a province. There's no reason for that VQ not to charge back into that same province the very next turn, regardless of how futile the odds seem to be against winning.

In my games getting back to the same province would take awhile, even for a flyer. And those can be precious moments since I tend to play nations where I would have an army on the way to her capital.

Meanwhile my angels would be getting ahead of the game claiming the neighboring provinces. True its not a 1-on-1 win, more of a wear-down tactic. But it sounds like a good one.

archaeolept · #7 May 6th, 2004, 12:03 AM

well, the fatal flaw is that she is in a castle.

in fact, of course, all the VQ's provinces are castled in the total strat, so hit and run tactics are unlikely to accomplish much, other than perhaps draw down a few ghostriders or some such.

now, if you manage to actually stop the dominion push, well, then the VQ isn't that much of a threat anyways since she is very unlikely to be sent out of her dominion, except perhaps w/ an exceptionally powerful army.

now, if I have pearls, I tend to buy lots of angelic hosts, esp. as I usually have some sort of bless effect going. but they've never actually managed to bump into a VQ yet. They are fairly weak units, as well, and I think you'ld need a few squads to take down a kitted up VQ; if somehow you managed to find her hanging out in the open ground.

[ May 05, 2004, 23:05: Message edited by: archaeolept ]