VQ Counters - NO Debates

Gateway103 · #1 May 6th, 2004, 03:49 AM

Regarding the Angelic Hosts, in my experience, they are fairly good against undead as well as living creatures (Harbinger's AOE 5 attack in principle should work well too, but 6 units is better than 1, at least for the price difference I think, research not factored in). However, I have found them to be most vulnerable right out of summoning, as you aren't able to script or give equipment to them.

So instead of using their Flambeaus, the Angels just sit in the back casting buff/blessing spells, and some offensive spells without much success (due to long range), while her 6 Hosts engage enemy ranks. This is fine for small enemy oppositions, but when facing larger crowds, the Hosts would likely die and/or retreat, as they aren't etheral or high def/prot, thus forcing the Angel to retreat too.

However, if you summon them in nearby provinces (free from attack and preferrably with a Lab), script them and equip them if you can, before sending them to battles, then the success rate and survival rate is much improved.

Of course, if you are trying to kill a SC, you don't need much script, since the goal is to catch them before they buff up. But equipment always help a bit. Afterall, if you are already investing a hefty price of 50 Astral Pearls into the summoning, why not make them more effective, and prolong their use as you would with Bane/Wraith Lord, and other summonable mini-SCs.

From my experience, with moderate equipment (Cons 4 stuff mostly) and some buffing, a lone Angel can function like mini-SCs similar to equipped Bane Lords, and in some ways better due to her magics and flying ability.

Just some observations,

-Gateway103

Norfleet · #2 May 6th, 2004, 04:03 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Cainehill:
Nope. In this scenario, the VQ winds up dead, even though she died in friendly dominion, loses magic paths, requires priests to call her back.

Really? It works even without having to actually take the capitol by storm? It's a lot easier than I thought, then, since then all you have to do is drop enough crap on the capitol to punch through any patrollers and PD.....

archaeolept · #3 May 6th, 2004, 04:34 AM

i've killed a VQ in the province outside the castle, only to fight her that same turn when my assault was resolved.

so i'm not completely sure what's up. I would have thought she always pops back, but caine seems to have experience to the contrary.

[ May 06, 2004, 03:36: Message edited by: archaeolept ]

Pirateiam · #4 May 6th, 2004, 05:37 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by alexti:
What will happen if you attack VQ with a couple of Golems (or similar units) equipped with eye shields? If they can blind her, they can probably kill her afterwards as well. Additional benefit is that it would take VQ few turns to recover from that even though she is immportal.

Another option is to send few flying/teleporting SCs who are ready to fight right away (without wasting time on any buffs). Preferrably el-cheapo SCs.

Early in the post I gave an example of fail safe unit that disposes of the VQ.

Golem with flying boots, flamnbeau, BS Helmut, red pearl, luck pend.

I have tested it extensively - never has lost to a VQ 1v1 - she gets nailed before she buffs. I have let her buff and it is 60% kill success rate. With VQ with misc army things change but I know I would send more the one on a strike anyways?

2 to trample chaff 2 to hit the queen works quit nicely.

What seems interesting is that there are other successful units that work so it does not exclude nations.

Pirateiam · #5 May 6th, 2004, 05:39 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Cainehill:

quote:
Originally posted by Pirateiam:
I am thinking about another idea but someone needs to answer this question. Here is the scenario: Lets say you kill the VQ (in her Domain) but on the same turn begin sieging her capital. Does she rematerialize inside the capital castle, even if it is being seiged?

Nope. In this scenario, the VQ winds up dead, even though she died in friendly dominion, loses magic paths, requires priests to call her back.

(This happened to me in AllTheNations on Mosehansen, at which point it was all downhill.)

Interesting

This could be the stake in the heart we are looking for. Kill the queen and jack the capital. Well only one way to verify....Be back in little while....

Kel · #6 May 6th, 2004, 05:48 AM

[quote]Originally posted by Pirateiam:

Quote:

I have tested it extensively - never has lost to a VQ 1v1 - she gets nailed before she buffs. I have let her buff and it is 60% kill success rate. With VQ with misc army things change but I know I would send more the one on a strike anyways? 2 to trample chaff 2 to hit the queen works quit nicely.

What seems interesting is that there are other successful units that work so it does not exclude nations.

Just curious, how does it work out if she has cheapo equipment ? Probably use stuff that is cheap but up to the same level as golems.

- Kel

[ May 06, 2004, 04:48: Message edited by: Kel ]

Pirateiam · #7 May 6th, 2004, 06:38 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Pirateiam:

quote:
Originally posted by Cainehill:

quote:
Originally posted by Pirateiam:
I am thinking about another idea but someone needs to answer this question. Here is the scenario: Lets say you kill the VQ (in her Domain) but on the same turn begin sieging her capital. Does she rematerialize inside the capital castle, even if it is being seiged?

Nope. In this scenario, the VQ winds up dead, even though she died in friendly dominion, loses magic paths, requires priests to call her back.

(This happened to me in AllTheNations on Mosehansen, at which point it was all downhill.)
Interesting This could be the stake in the heart we are looking for. Kill the queen and jack the capital. Well only one way to verify....Be back in little while....

Sadly this does not seem to be correct (pulls hair out) I have tested it 3 times and the VQ just materialized inside capital...no death...back to the drawing board.