VQ Counters - NO Debates

AhhhFresh · #1 May 6th, 2004, 03:55 PM

It would seem that others are correct regarding how to best use Angelic Host vs. a VQ.

Summon-drop of several hosts would only work well on a lone VQ being used offensively... which is perhaps not so difficult to deal with.

If the VQ is being used more defensively, at the lead of a strong army... an army you can match, with the exception of the VQ... then it would be semmingly best to bring a couple of hosts scripted to "attack fliers" to negate the VQ effect almost immediately... leaving your armies to fight more on even ground.

However, I imagine the VQ would bring a stable of fliers of it's own to mitigate this effect somewhat...

Gandalf Parker · #2 May 6th, 2004, 04:37 PM

VQ does seem to still be an advantage in taking indepts early in the game. Other gods can do that also so its not that you get an unfair lead. But you worry about the damage it takes while the VQ isnt such a big worry in that area.

Molog · #3 May 6th, 2004, 05:39 PM

Wouldn't mandrogoras be a good counter. They are undead, their sleep vines ignore armor and etherealness, six attacks pro mandrogora, 4 hits would be enough to put the vq to sleep, less if she was already fatigued.

Black forest Ulm gets that Nightzehrer hero, who is a better Version of the vampire queen. Only not stealthy, but he can get an heroic ability. Make him your profet for better effect.

Pretty new at dominions, so might be wrong.

AhhhFresh · #4 May 6th, 2004, 06:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Molog:
Wouldn't mandrogoras be a good counter. They are undead, their sleep vines ignore armor and etherealness, six attacks pro mandrogora, 4 hits would be enough to put the vq to sleep, less if she was already fatigued.

The problem with mandrogoras, is that they don't fly... so they won't be able to get to her before she buffs. Though I was recently schooled to their effectiveness against SC's in a recent MP game...

Is the sleep effect resisted with MR? If so, a fully decked out VQ should be nigh immune... and if they're not lifeless, then the old Soul Vortex + Wraith Sword would keep her pretty safe methinks.

EDIT: They are undead (duh!) so of course they're lifeless, but MR negates the sleep effect... so I dunno... if she's almost at 100 fatigue after buffing, then you might be able to get her... since Soul Vortex won't help. But I doubt it would do much against a fully equiped VQ with reinvigoration items and a sky-high MR.

Quote:

Black forest Ulm gets that Nightzehrer hero, who is a better Version of the vampire queen. Only not stealthy, but he can get an heroic ability. Make him your profet for better effect.

Pretty new at dominions, so might be wrong.

I don't know his magic paths, but VQ's really only become uber with a lot of magic... so it's unlikely that he would be quite as effective as an optimized VQ.

[ May 06, 2004, 19:43: Message edited by: AhhhFresh ]

AhhhFresh · #5 May 6th, 2004, 09:05 PM

An intersting issue has been brought up by archaeolept which is part of the temple/castle/VQ strat:

Quote:

The VQ is hidden in the sea of castles for the most part, and if it does move out i'm not sure if an attack on her would occur before an "instant castle" spell like 7 red seconds takes place.

So that's the question... does anybody knows what happens if:

1)VQ has just won a battle is alone in a province
2)Your mages cast Angelic Host 2-3 times on the province
3)One of her mages casts Wizard's Tower on the same province

Which happens first? Are you always going to have your Angels staring at her brand new castle walls? Or are you always going to have battle before the castle can come up? Or is it random?

Anybody in a position to test this?

Gandalf Parker · #6 May 6th, 2004, 09:40 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by AhhhFresh:
An intersting issue has been brought up by archaeolept which is part of the temple/castle/VQ strat:

quote:
The VQ is hidden in the sea of castles for the most part, and if it does move out i'm not sure if an attack on her would occur before an "instant castle" spell like 7 red seconds takes place.

Anybody in a position to test this?

Both are "spell attacks" on a province so the answer might involve the order of the nations, or maybe the game-age of the mages. So testing might have to be done with different nations.

Whats needed to test it. If I add to the Aran.map something like
#specstart 6 111 (arcos)
#startspell 6 "Angelic Host"

#specstart 10 123 (pangaea)
#god 10 "Vampire Queen"
#dominionstr 10 10
#startspell 10 "Wizards Tower"

WOuld that be enough to test it? Id probably have to give Arcos a god with clams or an extra site that generates pearles

Norfleet · #7 May 7th, 2004, 01:14 AM

I just made a very interesting discovery:

The absolute best counter for a VQ I've found so far appears to be....vampires. Ordinary vampires. They'll destroy even fully-equipped VQs, even when they strike after the mirror images are up.

Why?

Because it seems that even if they miss, even if they fail to do any damage, as evidenced by the fact that mirror images don't collapse, fatigue is inflicted! As a result, in the matter of a round or two, the VQ will surpass 100 fatigue and pass out, totally useless. I just found this out as a result of trying to use my newly-equipped pretender to mop up a pesky vampire count attack....and was very surprised to see this happen.

An extension of this theory would suggest that any attack which inflicts fatigue damage behaves likewise. This could be why Zen has consistently hinted at the great effectiveness of Mandragorae against any SC. Ghosts should definitely exhibit a similar behavior.

[ May 07, 2004, 00:18: Message edited by: Norfleet ]