Arcoscophile

[Blitz]

But if you'd rather have the ability to throw a wyrm down the drain and heal him, by all means do so. I prefer to have Pretenders if built for combat, have the highest likelyhood of success. Hence the Natrajah

The Natrajah owns. Let's not for a second ignore that fact. However, he's not going to be able to match the speed at which the snake gets out the of the gate. It's turn 5-6 before Natty really gets going which is 5-6 provinces for the wurm.

This strategy is more of an exercise in expansion than a SC template. A standard Natrajah is significantly more powerful (and expensive) than a dumb snake. That's not really the idea, which is to field 3 armies (2 elephant based, one snake) in the very early game and grab as much territory as possible, and win through scales and dominion. The merits of this versus investing in a Natrajah are debatable. If pressed on the issue I would, in fact favor an Archlich or Natarajah. However, by using this strategy I learned a lot about the game that I did not before. Given the time I've invested playing this game, I think other players still learning the game may as well.

[ May 07, 2004, 01:29: Message edited by: Blitz ]

[tinkthank]

Hey thanks for this great post.
Arco is one of the very few nations I have never played at all (tried like 6 turns once and got disgusted at the elephants destroying my army -- have since developed a huge love for the Behemoth for obvious reasons).

Two questions here:

1.) You write that Arco has "cheap labs" -- do they cost less than 200 gold?

2.) Routing, squads, and elephants. I've wanted to ask this question in a different context for a while: Is morale of a squad calculated as a total squad-thingy (the more the harder to lose total morale) even if the individual units of that squad are nowhere near each other (e.g.: elephants way in the front trampling, old heavy-armored slowpoke battle afflicted chaff in the back limping up to the front)?? I had thought this wasnt the case. However, if it is, that gives an entire new meaning to squad built and rout prevention.

Thanks much in advance.

[Graeme Dice]

Originally posted by tinkthank:
1.) You write that Arco has "cheap labs" -- do they cost less than 200 gold?

They only cost 100 gold for Arco.

2.) Routing, squads, and elephants. I've wanted to ask this question in a different context for a while:

How near units are to each other has absolutely no effect on squad morale.

[tinkthank]

Originally posted by Graeme Dice:

quote:

---

Originally posted by tinkthank:
1.) You write that Arco has "cheap labs" -- do they cost less than 200 gold?

They only cost 100 gold for Arco.

2.) Routing, squads, and elephants. I've wanted to ask this question in a different context for a while:

How near units are to each other has absolutely no effect on squad morale.

---

Wow, thanks, I didnt know either.

1. Cheap labs = yum.
2. That is good to know, if somewhat bizarre. Now I know what to do with my afflicted soldiers of all nations (exception: those with battle fright)!

[Etaoin Shrdlu]

I figure, now that it's been all day and no-one's mentioned it, that a "spread" Mystic (the 3 ?s not matching) is not as useless as Blitz says. It just takes longer. Consider:
1. Find a duo of Mystics, one with AAA, one with AEE (this takes luck, I admit-- a 1 in 64 and a 3 in 64-- but with so many places to make them it won't take as long)
2. Race to Construction 4-- the first Mystic makes Bag of Winds, Winged Helmet, gives them to the second, who has put together some Earth Boots for himself, moving him to 3A3E...
(A tougher line requires a 3F, a 3W, and a WFF and doesn't come into play until Const6 for the Water Bracelet. If you get both combos use them equally.)
3. Now at Construction 6-- Staff of Elemental Mastery time! Pass these on to what had been just "magically worthless" 1-1-1s and turn them into 2-2-2s, and with the right items, 3-3-3-3s (yes, four threes, with Crystal Coins). If you're swimming in gems empower them into the missing element and... five threes is a distinct possibility... (SEM+ Flame Helmet +Bag of Winds +Earthboots + Robe of the Sea + Crystal Coin). Add Power of the Spheres... yoicks! He's his own magical orchestra, just give him six of each gem before battles and watch him have at it!
(And he can lead, what, 75 magic beings after all that?)
So I'd amend the Mystic plan with this in mind: Have the "triples" gather in one place for path-boosting items when the time comes. Have the "doubles" on standby for the elemental-remote-searching spells (or go all-out for Const 4 with lower gem income, have one of each "triple" forge the boost item for themselves, and match them up with an Astrologer with a 4th S to clean up in all five disciplines). An Astrologer with D for Dark Knowledge, a Druid or Jade Sorceress for Haruspex and you'll have the gems (and summoners) to hit with so many different summoned thingies that the enemy won't be able to adapt to all the... stuff coming their way. Especially since what works for one set of things is completely backward for what's coming up next.
(Admittedly I haven't gone deep enough into an actual game myself to make this maneuver work. I guess I'm more into theory.)

[Yossar]

64 mystics has an upkeep of 768 gold. And then you have to add on some astrologers, some priestesses, and an army. I guess you can purposely kill them off to keep down upkeep but you're still going to need a large empire before you can count on getting a 3A mage. A Mystic with 3 in anything is too rare to be counted on as part of any strategy. You'll get some kind of 3-magic Mystic before too long, but it's not something you can plan for.

[Stormbinder]

Originally posted by Yossar:
64 mystics has an upkeep of 768 gold. And then you have to add on some astrologers, some priestesses, and an army. I guess you can purposely kill them off to keep down upkeep but you're still going to need a large empire before you can count on getting a 3A mage. A Mystic with 3 in anything is too rare to be counted on as part of any strategy. You'll get some kind of 3-magic Mystic before too long, but it's not something you can plan for.

In MP games you can always try to trade for magic pathes boosting items that you really need from other players. It may be costly, and some players may refuse if they consider you a threat, but more often than not you can find what you are looking for, as long as it doesn't take magic path higher than 2-3 to forge.

[Chris Byler]

Whoever posted that slingers are the worst unit - Mictlan slaves are worse. And they *do* have a use - soaking up lances and crossbow bolts.

But you have to pay for slingers, so I'm not sure if they have any use. Unless Flaming Arrows works on slings, in which case their cheapness and resultant mass of fire could make them dangerous.

I propose that anyone struck with a blunt weapon (sling, mace, club, fist, etc.) should take armor negating stun damage equal to half the weapon's normal damage, even if the weapon fails to do HP damage (because of the target's protection). Even if you can't get through someone's armor you can still beat them unconscious. This would make slingers good for something. The effect would be relatively minor on blunt weapons that do enough damage to usually do HP (troll clubs, hurled boulders) and would mostly be effective for weaker weapons (there's some Mictlan troops with maces, obviously slings, vineman fists).

[Teraswaerto]

Originally posted by Chris Byler:

I propose that anyone struck with a blunt weapon (sling, mace, club, fist, etc.) should take armor negating stun damage equal to half the weapon's normal damage, even if the weapon fails to do HP damage (because of the target's protection).

Something like this would be good, since currently swords penetrate armor better than maces, which is kind of silly.

[ May 08, 2004, 14:13: Message edited by: Teraswaerto ]

[st.patrik]

Originally posted by Chris Byler:
I propose that anyone struck with a blunt weapon (sling, mace, club, fist, etc.) should take armor negating stun damage equal to half the weapon's normal damage, even if the weapon fails to do HP damage (because of the target's protection). Even if you can't get through someone's armor you can still beat them unconscious. This would make slingers good for something. The effect would be relatively minor on blunt weapons that do enough damage to usually do HP (troll clubs, hurled boulders) and would mostly be effective for weaker weapons (there's some Mictlan troops with maces, obviously slings, vineman fists).

I think that this is a great idea - a good way to add more flavour to the combat system.