Good game, but....the AI is very bad.

IKerensky · #1 May 8th, 2004, 11:05 PM

Hum I think that proteus have several valid points.

And I DO think that there is easy way to improve AI behaviour is THOSES peculiar points.

First thing will be to have AI template built for each nation giving it a "model" ( better several for less randomness ) army it will try to emulate, thoses modesl including battlefield scripting.

Spells have to be classified by types and ranked in value thus the Ai can script the correct chaining.

For the more strategic point... then we get the weakest link of computerised AI and I guess we will have to use a sorta frontline AI, one wich will abstract the battlefield into a series of nodes controled by entities with the AI aiming at expanding his net of nodes favoring direction by calculation ( indies first, 1 foe, Last province lost... ). All of this is pretty complicated.

Pretender/commander equipment should also be scripted for the AI with a selection by level of CONS and kind of commander and/or current foe. Difficult but possible for a full time payed developper to come with.

To sum it all, I guess the shortest way to improve the DOm2 AI is to give it some recipes on how to play and bind it to that. It will be pretty predictable by nation ( but that's not surprising ) but make a far better job at playing one logically.

st.patrik · #2 May 8th, 2004, 11:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kristoffer O:
Hello MStavros.

I find it rather amusing that you try to influence us with split personalities

Hopefully there will be improvements in the AI, but as before I can't give you any guarantees.

ah! I wondered from the tone of the Messages if it might be MStavros again.

MStavros/Proteus: wasn't once enough? do we really have to go through all the tired old rants again?

Kuroth1 · #3 May 8th, 2004, 11:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Gandalf Parker:

quote:
Originally posted by proteus:

quote:
Originally posted by Leif_-:
Of course they can be fixed, it's just going cost more than it's worth.

I dont agree. Huge amount of players are only playing singleplayer games. They should get the best what is possible for their money.
This game costs a lot of money, like the top seller high-end games. This is why the devs should focus on this, since this is the weak part of the game right now.
Im real sorry if anyone feels they arent getting their money worth. I used to hear the same thing about Master of Magic because it wasnt multiplayer. Or GalCiv (the #1 AI game by the way) because it wasnt multi-platform. Now we have Illwinter's PBEM multiplayer game because the AI isnt good enough for decent solo play. Maybe the game description needs touched up.

Gandalf I am confused... Are you saying that the SP game of DomII IS BAD because of Bad AI and they should change the Description to read PBEM only???

Gandalf I had been meaning to ask you a question and now I guess is a good time... I think I read one time that you play SP 95% of the time.... My questions is what do you think of the AI??? Is the game fun and good as a SP game????

I am just asking because I always respect your opinion...

Thanks!

Gandalf Parker · #4 May 8th, 2004, 11:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by proteus:
Sorry, there was no information that the SP part is totally useless, and that it is for train and practice only, in fact read the features page. I wouldnt buy the game than.

Dont get me wrong, I understand that its hard to write a good AI, but hell, a half year passed since the release of Doms 2..or even more?!!!
Still nothing, and as I understand Kristoffer O. they havent even touched the AI!!!

I cant believe this.

What cant you believe about it? you are talking about what? 1 patch? 2 patches?

Im mostly a solo player but I dont expect them to spend alot of time upgrading a part of the game that isnt mainline to what they created.

The fact that some improvements are coming MIGHT be due to the fact that some players finally started doing test runs.

JaydedOne · #5 May 8th, 2004, 11:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by proteus:
Yes we do hope as well. I guess you dont really care about it as I see. Sad..

Constructive criticism citing that your topmost interest as a player for future patches is an AI improvement (and offering a few suggestions on how to go about it) is one thing. Flat-out Knocking a developer who has shown more support for his community than all but a handful of his better-paid, full-time colleagues is another.

Guess which one is more likely to garner respect and a proactive response from both devs and fellow community members.

[ May 08, 2004, 22:50: Message edited by: JaydedOne ]

Gandalf Parker · #6 May 8th, 2004, 11:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kuroth1:
Gandalf I am confused... Are you saying that the SP game of DomII IS BAD because of Bad AI and they should change the Description to read PBEM only???

Well Illwinter has never made any great claims about the AI. What was quoted was from the Shrapnel site. (they are the game production company. they are supposed to market it)

And yes, I think the description would be easier to fix than the AI for now. Im sure its on their list but I dont know what would have been left out of the Last couple of patches to give it to us. The speed control in battles? (I can hear he reaction to THAT)

Quote:

Gandalf I had been meaning to ask you a question and now I guess is a good time... I think I read one time that you play SP 95% of the time.... My questions is what do you think of the AI??? Is the game fun and good as a SP game????

I would love to see it improved. I have no problem with asking. Im thrilled when I see Posts that actually try to pin down and test some suggested improvements. Its worked for me and Ive been making suggestions since the first days of Dom1. In my own small way Ive also tried to improve it thru maps. (www.dom2minions.com)

What I dont like is to see people saying its broke, making it sound like some falsified rip-off, demanding work be done on it, and generally turning it into something that the devs dont want to touch (well one dev programmer actually). Its not the subject I disagree with, its the tactics. Not only do I think they wont work well, I think they go in the opposite direction.

[ May 08, 2004, 22:54: Message edited by: Gandalf Parker ]

guybrush threepwood · #7 May 8th, 2004, 11:55 PM

Hi,

First, I certainly think that every krone spent on this captivating game has been spent well!

And I certainly understand that the AI can be an extremely difficult thing to come up with good algorithms for.

But I just wanted to point out that improvements to the AI would certainly be highly appreciated by many people. If it is possible to find the time to do it of course.

Anyway, I find comments about "not getting what you paid for" hard to comprehend.

Cheers,
Thomas