Worst Summon ??

[Wauthan]

Though question to answer. There are a lot of units that I never bother to summon. That don't mean they are especially bad or too costly, just that I don't have strategies that need them. Out of the units I do use but find frustrating I would say that the Wyvern and the Corpse Man tops the list. The former is fairly expensive in the early game and lack staying power. The latter is perhaps best compared to mobile target dummies. Both have their uses but are very quickly rendered obsolete with a little more research or income.

[PrinzMegaherz]

I dislike those early game summons that only call one unit. It takes simply to lang / too many mages to produce enough of these summons to make them usefull. Take Vine Ogres as an example. They are good early game troops, however you need 10 nature mages with ivy crowns to summon 20 of them, which is the minimum for a decent force. Compared to the 2 earth mages that would give you 24 Clockwork Horrors, this is ridiculous.

[Darryl]

Originally posted by Gandalf Parker:
Now your going to set me off. Since anything "worst" or "weak" is my target zone. While others concentrate on testing "best" I like to test "worthless" and find new uses. I often can.

Ok Gandalf, how on Earth (or water or nature) do you use Treelords? I mean when can the job be done by a Treelord as opposed to something else? What nature 5 caster is going to summon a Nature 4 caster who can't move? I understand the 250 HP, but immoble? I must be missing something here.

[Gandalf Parker]

Originally posted by Darryl:

quote:

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Originally posted by Gandalf Parker:
Now your going to set me off. Since anything "worst" or "weak" is my target zone. While others concentrate on testing "best" I like to test "worthless" and find new uses. I often can.

Ok Gandalf, how on Earth (or water or nature) do you use Treelords? I mean when can the job be done by a Treelord as opposed to something else? What nature 5 caster is going to summon a Nature 4 caster who can't move? I understand the 250 HP, but immoble? I must be missing something here.

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Actually non-movers work well for fighting my own bad habit of emptying my provinces. There are other non-movers I use alot but it doesnt hurt to have one that can also stay busy in mage duties.

[NTJedi]

The Ivy Kings still seems a better deal then the any of the Treelords and able to match the Treelords magic with a single thistle weapon.

I believe to make the Treelords worth considering they should make one or more following changes:

1) Add more miscelaneous slots
(with all those branches should have 4 instead of 2)
2) Add more life, defense and/or attacks
(if they cannot move make them more of a threat for the province they're stuck in)
3) /ideas others can provide/

[ May 17, 2004, 20:11: Message edited by: NTJedi ]

[Kel]

While I think the basis for the values of a summon should not be based on unusual circumstances, as is the Treelords, I have actually used them once or twice now.

Basically, I didn't have high nature mages, except for my pretender and I had better things to do with my pretender than summon tarrasque. Additionally, i had a site with conjuration bonus but none with Construction. So I summoned one Treelord and let him summon tarrasque after that (note that one of the treelords is actually 5N, though I didn't get that one).

Now, i could have forged items to do it but it would have cost a good bit more.

I don't think it qualifies it as a good summons at all...but I felt obliged to mention the one case where I found a use for it

- Kel

[NTJedi]

Originally posted by Kel:
While I think the basis for the values of a summon should not be based on unusual circumstances, as is the Treelords, I have actually used them once or twice now.

Basically, I didn't have high nature mages, except for my pretender and I had better things to do with my pretender than summon tarrasque. Additionally, i had a site with conjuration bonus but none with Construction. So I summoned one Treelord and let him summon tarrasque after that (note that one of the treelords is actually 5N, though I didn't get that one).

Now, i could have forged items to do it but it would have cost a good bit more.

I don't think it qualifies it as a good summons at all...but I felt obliged to mention the one case where I found a use for it

- Kel

For less gems you could have done exactly the same thing by summoning an Ivy King then given him the item(s) which raise nature magic. Even adding the cost of the forged items still makes the Ivy King cheaper.

[ May 17, 2004, 20:28: Message edited by: NTJedi ]

[Kel]

[quote]Originally posted by NTJedi:

For less gems you could have done exactly the same thing by summoning an Ivy King then given him the item(s) which raise nature magic. Even adding the cost of the forged items still makes the Ivy King cheaper.

Not true !

I had a 30 conj site. Thus, Treelord = 35 gems. 66% chance I need a 1 N enhancer. 33% chance I don't and I can start summoning next turn instead of forging. So average cost is 35 gems + 2/3rds of a moonvine (18 gems). Total = 53 gems.

Ivy King = 14 gems
Plus Treelords = 40 gems
Total = 54 gems + it takes longer to get to summoning.

Could have done moonvines + thistle mace but it would have taken even longer to get to the summoning of Tarrasques.

- Kel

edited some mistakes.

[ May 17, 2004, 21:18: Message edited by: Kel ]

[odd_enuf]

treelords are enchantments, not conjurations, so a conjuration site wouldn't help.

odd_enuf

[Kel]

Doh, entirely true, my mistake.

Otoh, if I had an enchantment site (I didn't), wouldn't that make it even more clear cut sinec Ivy King wouldn't get a discount at all ?

- Kel