OT: An Existential Dilemma

Maltrease · #1 May 25th, 2004, 04:50 AM

Hey... I was going to admit to being you.

Now what happens? Do we both not exist?

It's like when you eat Anti Pasta as your appetizer and then have Pasta for the main meal.

Later on you wonder why you are still hungry... when the answer is pretty obvious.

Gandalf Parker · #2 May 25th, 2004, 04:51 AM

IPs can be spoofed but only for a 1-way traffic thing which excludes most internet activitys including this one.

We have already had a case where one poll was pretty much ignored when the person with a particular viewpoint created over 30 logins in a day. The fact that they all came from the same IP group was a factor.

However multiple sites arent hard to get. I have a dozen different IPs I can come in from.

On the other hand few people can manage multiple personalities well. If they can then they have problems outside of this forum which need addressed.

This is an old and well-chewed subject in the alt.hacker newsgroup. You cannot be totally anonymous on the net. You can only make it harder to tell who you are. Its a factor of how much trouble you cause to make it worth tracking down the answer.

[ May 25, 2004, 03:52: Message edited by: Gandalf Parker ]

Zapmeister · #3 May 25th, 2004, 05:02 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Gandalf Parker:
You cannot be totally anonymous on the net.

Is that really true? Suppose, for example, I suspected that Norfleet had multiple logins in this forum, and asked you to investigate. You do a good job, and report that he's clean.

The problem is, I suspect you of being Norfleet, and there's no-one else I can turn to (except Zen, who is also Norfleet).

I don't believe there is any way you can prove to me that Gandalf/Norfleet/Zen/Annette/... and myself are not the only two people in the forum.

Huzurdaddi · #4 May 25th, 2004, 05:09 AM

Since the gig is up I might as well let you in on it Zapmeister.

You are Norfleet.

Gandalf Parker · #5 May 25th, 2004, 05:10 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Zapmeister:

quote:
Originally posted by Gandalf Parker:
You cannot be totally anonymous on the net.

I don't believe there is any way you can prove to me that Gandalf/Norfleet/Zen/Annette/... and myself are not the only two people in the forum.

Really pushing on the existential thing huh?
Remember: on Internet never believe anyone who says they are XXXXXX
and never believe anyone who says they are not XXXXXX.
(replace xxxxx with your choice of old, young, male, female,
married, unmarried, law, hacker, mortal, god)

Actually it all boils down to "root" (windows people say "administrator"). Anyone with root access can do alot of tracing, and slamming. Its part of what keeps the internet alive and running. now if you think that maybe Norflet is the person who ACTUALLY put up this box so that he can play all the parts and talk to himself... OK this is getting nuts.

PvK · #6 May 25th, 2004, 05:16 AM

Well yes, it is easy to become anonymous to a user, harder to be anonymous to a forum admin, harder than that to be anonymous to an ISP, still harder to be anonymous to a major name service provider, and even harder to be anonymous to a government security task force. But only if any of them care.

Dialup customers to an ISP generally get a different IP address each time they connect.

Then there are anonymizer services - they know who you are, but whoever you connect to, doesn't. That'll work for everyone up to the ISP of the anonymizer service, and the best of those would take measures to prevent themselves from being (ab)used by authorities.

Etc.

On a forum though, as Gandalf mentioned, it's easier to tell via human communication skills, and by estimating the odds. Again, if you care.

So, yes we could all be Norfleet, but it would be a full-time job for us, and we'd have to be supergeniuses who nonetheless decide it is worth our time to deceive you in this way. Which we might, in our supergeniusness, have realized is actually true, since we get to goof off with Dominions so much. If we happen to be what you might call Cthuloid, it might even just be our hobby.

PvK

[ May 25, 2004, 04:18: Message edited by: PvK ]

Kel · #7 May 25th, 2004, 05:18 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Gandalf Parker:

quote:
Originally posted by Zapmeister:

quote:
Originally posted by Gandalf Parker:
You cannot be totally anonymous on the net.

I don't believe there is any way you can prove to me that Gandalf/Norfleet/Zen/Annette/... and myself are not the only two people in the forum.
Really pushing on the existential thing huh?

If he was really being existential he would have said that there is no way to prove that *he* isn't the only one here

- Kel