Severe combat disadvantage for AI

PsychoTechFreak · #1 May 25th, 2001, 09:34 AM

The human player always gets the first shot. Especially in closeup battles, e.g. at wormholes, this is a severe disadvantage for the AI, isn't it ?

I don't know who shoots first, the attacker or the defender of a sector? It seems to be more logical to give the advantage of surprising attack to the one who enters a sector, unless the defender can't be detected due to cloaking.

Anyway, I think the AI strength would improve if this disadvantage could be changed.

Any thoughts ?

#2 May 25th, 2001, 10:11 AM

I think precedence is set by the order in which players are added. Manually add the races you want with yourself Last. That way they always get to move and shoot first.

dogscoff · #3 May 25th, 2001, 11:18 AM

This is a step backwards from SEIII - I remember getting first shot on that game was all- important.

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"Uh, I think so, Brain, but balancing a family and a career ... oooh, it's all too much for me. "

PsychoTechFreak · #4 May 25th, 2001, 11:41 AM

quote:
Originally posted by LCC:
I think precedence is set by the order in which players are added. Manually add the races you want with yourself Last. That way they always get to move and shoot first.

Just if you play only against human beings... which is also unfair (simultaneous movement setting is recommended, but I don't like it because you always loose movement points if you enter an unexplored system). But if an AI enters your sector then you ALWAYS get the first shot with turn based setting.

A possible circumvention could be if you voluntarily skip your turn in tactical combat, a hard test to freeze your finger on the trigger if an overwhelming fleet attacks you...

Does anybody know for sure, how the result with regard to the first shot is calculated in strategic combat?

rdouglass · #5 May 25th, 2001, 02:07 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Nitram Draw:
The first shot/move is a BIG advantage in WP combat but not so big in other types. If you take out the AI leader ship on the first shot in a WP battle you get two shots/moves without return fire. This can decide a battle....

Forgive my ignorance (I have been playing this game for quite a while now), but how DO you determine the AI fleet leader??? There are some good AI's out there now and with a few bonuses and stuff, they (AI's) can and have become quite respectable opponents...(contrary to some other Posts).

Nitram Draw · #6 May 25th, 2001, 02:44 PM

Unless you memorize the formations I have no idea how you tell which one is the fleet leader. Maybe you can tell by watching the AI move. The first to move is the leader, I think.
I have destroyed the one I thought was the leader and seen the AI freeze a number of times. Hopefully this is something that can be changed in a future patch.

Suicide Junkie · #7 May 25th, 2001, 04:31 PM

The leader has a blue fleet tag, rather than a red one... just like your own fleets.

capnq · #8 May 25th, 2001, 04:38 PM

This entire discussion seems to be ignoring weapons range. Whoever moves into range first is going to get first shot.

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Cap'n Q

The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the
human mind to correlate all of its contents. We live on a placid
island of ignorance in the midst of black seas of infinity, and it was
not meant that we should go far. -- HP Lovecraft

Nitram Draw · #9 May 25th, 2001, 04:49 PM

I agree except in WP combat where you start at close range.

PsychoTechFreak · #10 May 25th, 2001, 07:46 PM

All right, we've got two situations which I think would need a change in combat handling:

1) Cloaked ship enters a sector of ship whithout the appropriate scanner, discloakes (or is it uncloakes?) and surprisingly attacks the other ship.

-I would like to see a close range battle with the first shot given to the ex-cloaked ship. Or even better would be if the ship could enter the combat screen with cloak remaining, and just when it shoots a weapon it should uncloak, like: sneak to the blind ship, uncloak, FIRE... (like in MOO2).

2) Not cloaked ship (for cloaked ship, see 1.) comes out of the wormhole, another ship waits at this side of the wormhole.

-Close range battle, ok. But who should get the advantage of the first shot? Maybe the wormhole-traveller would be more surprised by ships waiting on the other side with laser banks unlocked and targeted to the exit of WH. Or maybe the defender of the WH would be tired, already waited some months w/o any wormhole activity, turned his ship towards the sun, hypnotized... and BAMM, attack from the buttocks...