Vanheim Pretenders: Allfather and Asynya

[Stormbinder]

Originally posted by Tuidjy:

quote:

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Originally posted by Cohen:
Perhaps Tujdy has missed some others my Posts where I said that VQ should have his new path cost to 70 points about ... and should have even some more nerf. However it seems Devs have already take care of the vamp on the next patch.

If I propose something, isn't for advantage myself, but for game balance in general.
Full stop.

Yes, the Allfather is one of the best pretenders.
He is also one of the most expensive. He has one
major weakness. He is missing an eye, and Vanheim
has a horrible time fixing that. GoH, chalice,
etc... are very hard for Vanheim to get without
help. Heartbinding an arco priestess is the only
way I have managed it.

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You are forgeting the little option of dying Tujdy. It fixed the lost eye all right for me, together with nasty Chest Wound. (Although it was not actually a "lost" eye, for Odin knew very well where and why did he left it )

Depending on your Pretender setup and avalaibilty of pristst, the dying with AllFather might not be a big deal to you, especially if you invested most of your points into some high lvl 9 blessing, which is a popular option when playing such a bless-friendly race as Vanheim.

I would certanly not reccomend such radical method to everyone, but it is something to keep in mind. As a good doctor said : "The dying is good for yor eyes"

[Graeme Dice]

Originally posted by Inigo Montoya:
But in this situation, where the Allfather is comparable to other pretender choices and Asynya sucks so bad there is no reason at all to pick her, then nerfing would be a mistake, right?

I'm pretty sure that she has the highest base precision of any pretender chassis, which makes the combination of high air magic and thunderstrike quite impressive.

[Inigo Montoya]

Originally posted by Graeme Dice:
I'm pretty sure that she has the highest base precision of any pretender chassis, which makes the combination of high air magic and thunderstrike quite impressive.

Nope. If precision + Air magic is what you are after, Virtue is the better selection. Virtue has a base precision of 15 whereas Asynya has only 13 base. To futher slap Asynja in the face, Virtue costs 50 whereas Asynja costs 75.

Basically, she sucks and her cost is too high. Either buff her, or discount her.

EDIT: Spelled Asynja's name correctly.

[ June 04, 2004, 13:31: Message edited by: Inigo Montoya ]

[PvK]

Asynja (note spelling) is a much better fighter than a Virtue, though, and doesn't tend to die from one hit of Elf Bane.

I kind of like Asynja... though I wouldn't object to her getting a boost or a cost discout.

PvK

[Norfleet]

Originally posted by PvK:
Asynja (note spelling) is a much better fighter than a Virtue, though, and doesn't tend to die from one hit of Elf Bane.

Yes, but if you have her scripted as a mage to spam spells, she will die anyway because the spellcasting AI is too dumb to quit casting spells and fight, or cast spells and quit trying to fight: You have to script it to do one or the other, and it won't be able to switch functions to fit the battle.

As such, if you're using the Asynja just to lob spells from the back of the army, the increased durability is no asset, and innate armor is actually encumbering and counterproductive to spellcasting. The Virtue has better precision.

If you want to build a monster SC, the Allfather provides this at reduced price. If you want an A9 bless on a chassis that can also fight, the Titan provides this more cheaply due to his A3 start. The Titan is only one point of precision short anyway.....does one point really make that much of a difference, especially as he makes it up with his higher starting air magic, for a precision boost all the same, and when you take it up to A9, precision is high enough to use lightning bolts to snipe with anyway?

Once again....where's the niche? In any niche you can try to slot the Asynja into, there's a pretender that seems to perform the exact same taskset far better.

[Graeme Dice]

Originally posted by Inigo Montoya:
Nope. If precision + Air magic is what you are after, Virtue is the better selection. Virtue has a base precision of 15 whereas Asynya has only 13 base. To futher slap Asynja in the face, Virtue costs 50 whereas Asynja costs 75.

The virtue is pretty useless in a combat role, since she only has ~26 hitpoints. You can use her as a mage, but you'd probably be better off using a Vanadrott for the same role in that case.

[atul]

Originally posted by Graeme Dice:
The virtue is pretty useless in a combat role, since she only has ~26 hitpoints. You can use her as a mage,

Sorry to pick things out of context, but I've been wondering about this for a while now. I mean, while Virtue is indeed lacking in hitpoints and so on, I've found her good as an early game combat support.

The thing being, Awe +6. 0th circle spell Air Shield to protect her from missiles, a cheap armour in case a hit gets through, send her with your armies against indies like on turn 3. The opposition just stands there drooling at her while your troops close in for the kill. The secret of survival isn't high hp, prot or def, but the fact that no-one will hit her. Of course, provinces with high morale troops must be avoided, but as a such her aid in early expansion has been priceless.

I'm not arguing that the Virtue isn't quite useless, after all most high-morale units turn her into kebab, but I'd just like a second opinion on putting her in combat use: doable or just sheer madness? She has performed well in my tests but it may be just pure luck.