What's the best 100 gold National mage?

Blitz · #1 June 4th, 2004, 08:37 AM

Almost all races have a cheap national mage, but obviously not all are equal. Ignoring any synergy that the unit has with other units of it's race and just basing it on pure stats, which do you think is the strongest cheap mage?

Because of space concerns the cantidates were limited to those that met one of the three following criteria:

a) Three (3) levels of magical ability (Siethkona, Seraph, Harab Seraph, Witch Doctor)
b) A random pick (Fortune Teller, Vaetti Hag, Master of the Way)
c) A stealthy ability (Star Child, Illuminated One, Bard)

If you want to vote for another mage, feel free to tick other.

[ June 04, 2004, 08:44: Message edited by: Blitz ]

Blitz · #2 June 4th, 2004, 08:52 AM

My choice as the best mage is the Fortune Teller. At one time I thought these guys sucked, but boy was I wrong. While not as magicly versatile as the Master of the Way, the FT is surprisingly powerful. She comes in four Versions. All of them are good communion slaves and mind deulers, and can use arcane probing to search for astral sites. They can forge the excellent level 1 astral items. Additionally, the four can do a lot of things with their random pick. The double astral ones can cast Paralyse and Mind Burn. They can forge a starshine Skullcap and access the excellent level 3 Astral Line. The Death/Astral mages can search with Dark Knowledge. Nether Darts is a powerful combat spell. The Nature/Astral Versions can use healing light and forge wine skins. And the Blood/Astral mages are the ultimate Communion OR sabbath slave and excellent blood hunters, as their event-predicting abilities are at their strongest when spread all over the map.

The Seraph is a much better combat mage, but nowhere near as versatile. The Master of the Way is a better forger, but can't match the battlefield astral power of the Fortune Tellers. Siethkonas are better researchers and are versitile on the battlefield, but can't blood hunt and don't come in 2 astral Versions.

Taking everything into consideration, I think the Fortune Teller is the clear choice as the best cheap national mage in the game.

Norfleet · #3 June 4th, 2004, 09:12 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Blitz:
All of them are good communion slaves and mind deulers

Communion slaves? Yes. Mind duellers.....well, not unless you're duelling somebody really important and are prepared to sacrifice scads of capitol-only units that are difficult to replace, and are communioned up for such a task. If you really wanted to perform sacrificial duelling with an S1/2 mage, I'd recommend the more readily available Illuminati. They're easier to replace when they inevitably die trying to duel somebody's hapless S4 pretender to death.

And, of course, capitol-onlyness severely hampers your ability to deploy them.

Blitz · #4 June 4th, 2004, 09:41 AM

Quote:

Communion slaves? Yes. Mind duellers.....well, not unless you're duelling somebody really important and are prepared to sacrifice scads of capitol-only units that are difficult to replace, and are communioned up for such a task. If you really wanted to perform sacrificial duelling with an S1/2 mage, I'd recommend the more readily available Illuminati. They're easier to replace when they inevitably die trying to duel somebody's hapless S4 pretender to death.

And, of course, capitol-onlyness severely hampers your ability to deploy them

Well I was looking more to a pure stats based analysis, but even in the Black Forest context, I don't mind using them to deul. I usually make one every turn throughout the game, so the capitol-only restriction isn't really a problem. It's not like the BF Ulm has any other leaders you are going to want to build before you have a second fort going anyway. As for getting them to the front lines... that's what winged boots are for =).

[ June 04, 2004, 08:42: Message edited by: Blitz ]

Norfleet · #5 June 4th, 2004, 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Blitz:
Well I was looking more to a pure stats based analysis, but even in the Black Forest context, I don't mind using them to deul.

I'm not really sure you can divorce Fortune Tellers from their Black Forest context: They're an exclusive national unit: Capitol-only status *IS* a factor that must be considered in a unit as a negative element, since it will severely limit your production bandwidth if you can never produce them outside your home province, especially when the unit in question tends to have relatively poor mobility.

Scott Hebert · #6 June 4th, 2004, 05:22 PM

I voted Other, and I voted for the Daughter of Avalon. If you're looking for a mage, she's hands-down better than the Bard.

An 80g NN Sacred mage is very hard to scoff at. I'm appalled she's not listed.

Scott

PvK · #7 June 4th, 2004, 05:59 PM

Other: there is no best. It depends on how you are going to play them, and how you play the rest of your forces. So there is no level field upon which they can be compared for "best-ness".

For example, Mictlan Priest is unbeatable as a blood hunter, and serves as an efficient and needed leader of FoD's into battle in Mictlan's early game, and a great sabbath slave, and other purposes, and it is 80 gold and holy.

PvK

[ June 04, 2004, 17:00: Message edited by: PvK ]

Nagot Gick Fel · #8 June 4th, 2004, 08:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bayushi Tasogare:
I voted Other, and I voted for the Daughter of Avalon. If you're looking for a mage, she's hands-down better than the Bard.

An 80g NN Sacred mage is very hard to scoff at. I'm appalled she's not listed.

I find Bards much more useful. Awesome stealth, spying, can instill unrest, standard effect, better stats. In battle I'd use both of these mages for the same thing: reinvigorate their colleagues with spell songs, or cast Tangle Vines, for which the +3 more precision on the Bard comes handy. All this for less than 3 extra gold in upkeep. When I need powerful nature magic I use Crones.

Besides Daughters of Avalon are capital-only, and I prefer to stick to recruiting Crones here. Although I may recruit a Mother occasionally for her specials skills, it's extremely rare. OTOH I really can't see a use in the Daughter.

PhilD · #9 June 4th, 2004, 10:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Nagot Gick Fel:
OTOH I really can't see a use in the Daughter.

As Man's best researcher, they're what I use most of the time in early game - when there's no chance of being able to buy a Crone each turn.

Nagot Gick Fel · #10 June 4th, 2004, 11:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by PhilD:

quote:
Originally posted by Nagot Gick Fel:
OTOH I really can't see a use in the Daughter.

As Man's best researcher, they're what I use most of the time in early game - when there's no chance of being able to buy a Crone each turn.

Man has cheap temples and cheap stealthy Monks, and thus is an excellent candidate for Ceremonial Faith. So when I can't recruit Crones I recruit Monks instead - and because they're so cheap recruiting one is an excellent way to save gold to buy a Crone the next season.