What determines battle order?

[Endoperez]

Originally posted by Något Gick Fell:

I believe Endperez meant Once nation A takes control of a province, whether it was previously controlled by nation B of nation C has zero effect on moves or battles to come. Then he's 100% correct. All standard moves are resolved before standard battles, thus province ownership only plays a role when 2 enemy armies move towards the same province.

Yes, that is what I meant. It seems my English isn' as good as I had hoped...

edit: quote under wrong name
edit2: oops... I looked at different post, so quotation was right in the first place...

[ June 08, 2004, 15:00: Message edited by: Endoperez ]

[Nagot Gick Fel]

Originally posted by Endoperez:

quote:

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Originally posted by Något Gick Fell:

edit: quote under wrong name
edit2: oops... I looked at different post, so quotation was right in the first place...

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Vill du bokstavera mitt namn riktigt!

[Master Shake]

If you REALLY believe that, try chasing any army that happens to be rampaging through your territory: You will never catch it unless you guess where it is going in advance: If it were ACTUALLY random, you'd catch it about half the time, since sometimes you would move first, sometimes he would move first, as both territories are "hostile" moves.
However, this never works. The behavior is clearly deterministic in favor of the raiding party. Obviously, this is done to promote this behavior. Whether this is good or bad is irrelevant: It simply is, and to believe that it's purely a "random" thing is being naive. Size of army, speed of army, all appear to be irrelevant: A groundpounder raiding force consistently can outrun even flying pursuers, both large, and tiny: You NEVER catch them.

My understanding is that this is incorrect.

I could be wrong, but I believe faster armies move first. If armies are the same speed, then the smaller army moves first. I can understand how rules like this might make it seem like you can never catch raiders, but that's because raiders are likely faster and/or smaller than the force you are trying to cath them with. Try to catch a raiding army with a move 3 SC and see if you catch them.

[Vynd]

Has anyone actually demonstrated that faster armies move first? I've seen this claim before, and believed it, but my in game experiences don't seem to support it.

Heck, can anyone say that they have "caught up" with a raiding army before its move? And by this I mean moving into the space it is located in, when it is attempting to move elsewhere, and forcing it to fight instead of move. As opposed to moving to the same place that it moves to, or running into it as the two armies try to move into each other's provinces, or any of the various other tricks people have suggested. A lot of people say that they think it is possible but I can't recall anyone saying they've actually done it.

[Nagot Gick Fel]

Originally posted by Master Shake:
I could be wrong, but I believe faster armies move first. If armies are the same speed, then the smaller army moves first. I can understand how rules like this might make it seem like you can never catch raiders, but that's because raiders are likely faster and/or smaller than the force you are trying to cath them with. Try to catch a raiding army with a move 3 SC and see if you catch them.

If you were right, if an army of 20 Ulmish Black Plate infantry and an army of 20 Ti'en Ch'i light cavalty moved to the same uncontrolled territory, T'ien Ch'i would always be the first to get there. That's not what happen - chances are 50-50. And if the territory belongs to Ulm, Ulm will always arrive first and defend afainst T'ien Ch'i.

[Nagot Gick Fel]

Originally posted by Vynd:
Heck, can anyone say that they have "caught up" with a raiding army before its move?

It's simply impossible, unless:

(1) You intercept using magical movement (Teleport or such) or summoned troops (eg, Call of the Wild).

(2) You kill its leader(s) using rituals or assassination.

You can, however, catch up with this army after its move if:

(3) it was pushed back by army of your own [Edit: or any other nation] coming from the province it tried to move to.

[ June 09, 2004, 18:28: Message edited by: Nagot Gick Fel ]

[Chazar]

Ok, after reading the manual and seeing that it is explicitely written there that all combat movement precedes all battle evaluations, I tested whether intercepting raiders by scouts works as I described below:

It does, but chances are quite slim:

20 marignon cavalry and 10 crossbows raided, 2 caelian scouts intercepted from the province the raiders attacked and a huge caelian army moved into the square occupied by the raiders.

In about 1/3 of the cases, the 2 scouts battled the marignon raiding party an where slaughtered on the spot where the scouts originated from, hence avoiding the big caelian army. 2/3 simply went without battle, the 2 scouts moving from B->A and marignon from A->B without meeting at the border.

Replacing the scouts by a seraphine accompanied by 20 blizzard warriors changed that: the armies almost always meet, and the battle took equally often place in the raiders orginial province, hence allowing the big caelian army to join the fray.

[ June 09, 2004, 12:24: Message edited by: Chazar ]

[Master Shake]

I went and tested this and I was totally wrong. Smaller and faster do not grant you the ability to "catch" and army.