Diplomacy Screen

[Tuskerlove]

So far I'm loving the game but I do wish they had a diplomacy screen with a few options available to you. I have a hard time knowing who I'm at war with and at times I wish I could present a peace treaty so I wouldn't have to worry about a certain nations while I'm fighting someone else.

Europa Universalis II had a decent diplomacy approach ~ MOO II ~ something along those lines. Having a reputation score also shows who can and can't be trusted.

If nothing else just a screen showing who you are at war with and away of declaring war on a nation or offering tribute to buy you time to build up your forces while you regroup. It would offer a more realistic feel.

Just a thought....

[Gandalf Parker]

That comes up often. Personally Im a big diplomacy-options lover also.

There is alot of diplomacy available in the game but its geared mostly toward humans in multipayer games. It doesnt do much for solo play against the AIs.

You can send the AIs gold, slaves, equipment. It doesnt seem to make them like you but it can have some great strategic uses. Just one example, if I was Ulm and found Marignon AI sitting between me and Ermor. I want to avoid fighting Ermor but if I send anti-undead equipment food equip and gold to Marignon then they can take care of it. And I know I wont have a problem taking Marignon with a bunch of anti-undead weapons I sent them

[ June 09, 2004, 01:22: Message edited by: Gandalf Parker ]

[Karacan]

Since it's an all-out-There-Can-Be-Only-One war, I am no longer bothered by the lack of Diplomacy, though it was something I missed in the beginning.

However, since I recently played a four player Hotseat of good old ancient Warlords (the first one), I have to say that the diplomacy model there works really well for There-Can-Be-Only-One wars: The other races (nations) start with a specific likening towards you, which fades gradually over the time, the speed of which is determined by the things you do. Expand too fast? They'll start to fear you. Expand too close towards the cities they laid their eyes on? Only the specific nation you are threatening started to view you with more distrust.

While this would likely include more coding than fun, it is the diplomatic AI model I'd wish for Dominions. Or probably Dominions III.

[Cohen]

I believe instead the Diplomacy should be implemented especially for MP games.

With various level.

No level means, war or indifference. You see the map as it is now.
A level of non aggression treaty-peace allows you to see with precision what's in the bordering provinces of the enemy territory.
A low alliance setting that allow you to share map vision of the banners, or perhaps to share the banner+dominion vision.
A fully alliance set that shares military vision too of your troops and the one of the allied player.

[Tuskerlove]

Some fodder for diplomacy:

Diplomacy Options:

A. Shows status with each nation that you have come in contact with (Peace/Alliance/War/Non Aggression pact/Treaty).

B. Offer Alliances/Peace Treaties for a set amount of time (turns/months/years)

C. Gods can offer provinces/magic research/troops/money to cajole other Gods to join attack or defend borders for a set time.

D. Allied Gods may share map info.

E. Diplomacy Ratings shows how honest Gods are in regards to keeping their word. This rating effects how AI and MP treat you regarding diplomacy.

F. Trading of Individual Spells that have been successful researched in exchange for other spells in an equivalent field of study, or gems or money or troops.

Okay you get the idea.. probably not worth the time to code it....

Other things that would be interesting:

Using money to buy upgrades for your army. So much income would be put into exploring ways to upgrading your nations troops, after so much time and money these troops would use a better armor or weapon.

Having more buildings to construct: One time buildings that can only be built once you have successful research to a certain spell level - much like artifacts. Shipyards, moats, castle upgrades, dungeons, etc.

Sorry getting carried away....

[Gandalf Parker]

The problem is that we already have most of that in multiplayer games. Are you asking for these things so we can have them with the computer AI's in a solo game?

Or for multiplayer games so that the Dominions2 program can define the limits of our options and enforce them?

[ June 09, 2004, 15:31: Message edited by: Gandalf Parker ]

[littlemute]

Originally posted by Gandalf Parker:
The problem is that we already have most of that. Are you asking for these things so we can have them with the computer AI's in a solo game?

Or for multiplayer games so that the Dominions2 program can define the limits our options and enforce them?

Parker has a point there, as usual. MP games should give total control to do anything you want diplomatically as you can pander, coerce and cajole all you want through text messaging. Can you give provinces?

I like the fact that there is limited information about the entities and status surrounding you, who they are at war with, etc, it encourages scouting much like my other love, warcraft 3 in which good scouting is essential.

Diplomacy in these types of games, like Master of Orion, is simply a prelude to destroying everyone, so why beat around the bush? In DOM 2, the computer is either attacking you with everything it can or it's coexisting until you attack it or it decides when to attack. There's no discussion, no bull**** complaining that you built up a 'relationship' with the AI MEKLARS just to have them break all treaties and attack for seemingly no reason on turn 354. Granted, Emperor of the Fading Suns has a sweet diplomacy module to it and even Master of Orion 3 (shudder) had some reasons to team up permanently with an AI, but for most games it's 'hello leave me alone until I'm ready to crush you.'

It's like when I go and talk to a smoking bird at a rave and say "What's your name?" what it really means is "let's get it on." They know it, I know it, they know I know it and I know they know I know that they know I know it.

Make sense?

One issue is that dealing with Ermor in SP games can be difficult because the AI's don't register them as more of a threat than all the others, instead, they just get rolled over.

[Gandalf Parker]

There are work-arounds in multiplayer games for
1) alliances and peace treaties
2) sharing map info
3) trading to get spells cast (you cant trade spells)
4) trading commanders and troops
5) combining attacks
6) move thru an allys territory
7) offer a losing ally "sanctuary"
8) (probably more, feel free to ask)

For SoloPlay with the AI's, diplomacy is much more limited.
A) You can send gold, slaves, equip which can be helpful and strategic. It doesnt make them like you but it can help nation A beat nation B. Handy if nation B is one that you have problems with, and nation A will be no problem for you later.
B) You can ally with AI's but only by setting it up at the beginning of the game, and it only sets up a "no attack each other" arrangment.
C) Of course, like most diplomacy arrangments you can abuse the diplomact options that already are in the game (messaging stuff to them) by sending things to an AI that the stupid AI would be better off refusing.
D) With alittle bit of strategic planning you can arrange for 2 AI neighbors to go to war with each other (another common diplomatic tactic).

The developers have said they were interested in increasing the SP Diplo options but other things have to be higher on the wishlist

[ June 09, 2004, 15:59: Message edited by: Gandalf Parker ]

[Tuskerlove]

Thanks for the info - I've only played single player games so I was speaking from my limited experience. I'm looking forward to MP games but wanted to get the basics down before I started playing against other people.

[Reverend Zombie]

Originally posted by littlemute:
It's like when I go and talk to a smoking bird at a rave and say "What's your name?" what it really means is "let's get it on."

I have never found smokers attractive.