Golden Age Arcoscephale

[Scott Hebert]

You've stated this again, and rather than unintentionaly insult you again, I'll try to be clearer.

That would be appreciated.

Many if not most nations have cheaper mages that are in many circumstances more cost effective at doing various things. You've correctly identified researching and forging, and I reminded you of blood hunting...

And I thank you for that reminder.

but on the battlefield there are many reasons why a cheaper mage might be better. Taking again, the seithkona who can cast both healing light and nether darts... her fatigue will be higher from these spells, but obviously two seithkona can cast them twice as often at less than half the price. Other good examples of this are the Marignion witch hunter, the Plythium Therug, the Caelum Seraph, the Machaka sorceress, the mother of avalon, and others. Clearly there are many situations where spending double the gold on a mage to cast the same spells is not effective.

Certainly, and I don't try to imply otherwise. However, I wasn't aware that the Evocation-7 necessary to cast Nether Darts qualified as 'especially early game'.

I simply don't see myself using, or hear of most others using, their cheap mages early in a combat role, or _any_ role other than researcher, bloodhunter, or (occasionally) cheap-item forger.

My point in all of this relative to GE Arco is that the Philosopher gives up the forging/battle roles that the Seithkona in order to give the same research at a cheaper price. 40g + 2.6667g per turn cheaper.

_Especially_ early-game, this difference is huge. Considering the other differences between GE Arco and Utgard Jotunheim, it should be much easier for Arco to afford the non-troop expenditures (forts/labs/temples/mercs) than Utgard Jotunheim, all other things being equal (and I'm not saying they are).

Just something to consider.

[Scott Hebert]

[quote]Originally posted by Zen:
Well it's a game by game basis which tactics I use. But In General?

Heavy Combat Oriented Pretender viable both Early and Late Game (Think Natty, PoD, Phoenix, Daughter, Cyclops)

By daughter, do you mean the Daughter of the Land? I wasn't aware she was considered a Combat-oriented Pretender. I see as 'clam factory', normally.

Mass Engineers

Perhaps the most underestimated GE Arco commander.

Midgame I rely on Golembatants until I get my Mystic Support Spells in Line

This (and the other Earth summons) is why I wish GE could get Golem Cult. Hell, if they charged GE 50 points and gave them auto-Golem Cult, I'd still play them.

Abuse of Communion at every concievable opportunity

This is fun with Mystics.

I'm most curious about that Daughter thing.

[Blitz]

However, I wasn't aware that the Evocation-7 necessary to cast Nether Darts qualified as 'especially early game'.

Healing light and nether bolt are evo 5 IIRC. With jotunheim that level of evocation is a high priority.

[ June 24, 2004, 03:16: Message edited by: Blitz ]

[Graeme Dice]

Originally posted by Scott Hebert:
By daughter, do you mean the Daughter of the Land? I wasn't aware she was considered a Combat-oriented Pretender. I see as 'clam factory', normally.

She's the best of the 50 point humanoids, as she has giant stats, starts with water magic for quickness, and can easily afford to put another couple of paths at 3 magic for combat purposes. I use her with C'Tis an awful lot.

[numskully]

Blitz, your doing a very fine job on your subject. props to you, for it all makes sense.

the engineer has been brought up, but why is his resource cost 50? its hard enough to make units on this team (a team that isnt blood or death summoning).

[Scott Hebert]

Originally posted by Blitz:
Healing light and nether bolt are const 5 IIRC. With jotunheim that level of evocation is a high priority.

Er, don't you mean Evo intead of Const? They're actually Evocation-3 and -4, respectively. While interesting, about the only thing I would research early in Evocation is to get Arcane Probing. I would have to evaluate whether or not the other spells were worth it, that early in the game.

How do you use the Seithkonur, if you do get that high, though? I find it hard to imagine you're going to want to fire Nether Bolts into a melee, considering the effects should they hit your giants. OTOH, I don't see how they would be effective as a 'solo' magical attack squad. Do you use Vinemen to protect them, or something?

Honest question here. About the only time I do something like this (magical attack squads) is with Caelum.

To be perfectly honest, though, I almost prefer base Jotunheim to Utgard. Much better Bloodhunting.

I normally find with Jotunheim that I want rather high Enchantment, for Revenants and other fun Death stuff. With Utgard's increases focus on Astral magic, I can see why taking more Evocation is desirable, but I'm rather leery of trying to bring Seithkonur into combat without some sort of mass Communion or something.

[Scott Hebert]

Originally posted by numskully:
Blitz, your doing a very fine job on your subject. props to you, for it all makes sense.

I'm glad he's making sense to someone.

the engineer has been brought up, but why is his resource cost 50? its hard enough to make units on this team (a team that isnt blood or death summoning).

It's the price you pay for having castles that never fall.