A few comments about the Romulan

Master Belisarius · #1 May 29th, 2001, 04:01 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Q:
Even if the AI does not use them as efficiently as an experienced human player, I think the performance with mines

- About the mines, please note that to include minesweepers into your attack ships (like your AI moded races and the Rage, for example), it makes the ship more weak.
Also, in the early game, the minesweepers in attack ships are not very effective: for example, the Phong attack ships were unable to remove the Pyrochette minefields.
The REAL problem is that the AI doesn't include the minesweepers ships into their fleets, and send those ships unprotected to remove the mines.

quote:
Originally posted by Q:

allegiance subverter is quite good at least with some modified races.

- Yes, the AI use the Allegiance Subverter very well. But if an human player found an AI with this device... the next turn will start to research computers to build ships with Master Computers.
But, I'm saying that Allegiance Subverters used by human players against the AI, are like a cheat, because the AI NEVER use Master Computers.

If an human player found other player that use boarding parties, surely he'll start to include Self destruct devices into their ships. But what happen with the AI? The AI doesn't know if their enemy is using boarding parties or not... then, the AI maker will be forced to spend some important space of their ships with useless Self-Destruct Devices (useless if the other empire is not using Boarding Parties).
I think that here, should exist an automated event, that should be triggered when the AI knows some enemy designes with Boarding Parties (the Self-Destruct Devices only should be included into the AI designes, if the AI knows that his enemy is using Boarding Parties) .

quote:
Originally posted by Q:

If you let the AI research medicine and include a medical bay in the population transport ship design, he will cure plagues quite well.

- What happen when an human player got a plague into of one of their colonies? He will try to research the Medicine devices to cure the plague.
But the AI... the AI only will follow what did their creator.
It mean that if he have included the research to cure the plagues in the early game, probably the AI will lose a lot of valuable resources, researching an useless tech. But if the human player research the plagues in the early game, but the AI maker put this tech later into the AI tech tree, then, well... the AI will die.
Like the Self destruct and Master Computers, the research for cures to plagues, should be an automatic event, triggered after the AI knows that one of their planets have a plague.

Finally, about the stellar manipulations, yes, the AI use it, but in an erratic way. (The AI can send a sun-destroyer to kill a system with only one little planet of their enemy, instead to kill other enemy's system with 10 starting planets!).
Also, what about the old human tactic: to open a warp point, send a fleet into the enemy territory and close the warp point? The AI is unable to do it.
It mean that the AI have a great disadvantage, using Stellar Manipulations.

Nitram Draw · #2 May 29th, 2001, 04:17 PM

I don't think it will ever be possible to get the AI to use all the available tech/weapon combos effectively. As you point out they are only as good as their creator made them. The AI, in its current state, can never learn. This is really what must be changed to make the AI much better. The game is so complex and there are so many variables that it is impossible to program the AI to take advantage of them all.
So far most of the good modded AI's have made compromises and are worthy opponents in the short term. The longer the game goes the easier they get to beat.
Some of the mods have added the minesweeper ability to an item that also has other uses, Dev mod gives this ability to PD cannons. This is a good compromise I think. While a human will always build dedicated minesweepers and include them in the fleet the AI just won't.
Plagues are another area the AI is weak in, if it's not in the program they will just die. The medical ability could be given to something the AI will definately produce.
The only problem with the compromise approach is it dilutes the thing that makes this game great, the variety. Maybe MM will take everything learned/suggested in this forum and use it in SE5 to make the game that this one could be. Don't get me wrong, I LOVE this game. I just hope the next Version has a big improvement in the AI.

Atraikius · #3 May 29th, 2001, 04:20 PM

From all of the Star Trek TV series, years of Star Fleet Battles, and various Star Trek computer games, it seems as though there are three things that define the Romulans:
1. Cloaking Device
2. Plasma Torpedoes
3. Very extensive Intelligence force.

yet, the Romulan AI seems to research both Cloaking, and Intelligence fairly late, when they should be one of the first, and when they finally do research Intelligence, they don't seem to build very many Intelligence Facilities, putting them a noticable disadvantage when using Intelligence projects against them, when they should rival the Darloks.

While Plasma Torpedoes, a weapon used by them since thier very first apperance in the original series, are not even used.

Master Belisarius · #4 May 29th, 2001, 04:38 PM

Nitram Draw: don't be confused. Also, I still love the game.
I'm only saying that playing alone against the AI, I never use Mines, Alliegiance Subverters, Board Parties and Stellar Manipulations.
Also, I never take over AI planets and use AI population, to populate planets with a diferent atmosphere.

Nitram Draw · #5 May 29th, 2001, 04:46 PM

Yep, I restrict myself in a lot of way too, except against those devious humans that I play hotseat against. They are such sneaky buggers!

#6 May 29th, 2001, 06:24 PM

M. B. - I do not use the others, but mines are the bedrock of my planetary defense for the first 50-70 turns. After that it is WP with missiles, PD, and beams. Until the AI starts doing serious sweeping mines make more sense. Research for them is cheap, but a good WP is very expensive tech for an early game....

Atrocities · #7 May 29th, 2001, 07:48 PM

The romulans work well for me. Then again, I am not an AI kind of guy that spends hours tweaking it. I only work on the ship sets.

But let me tell you how my current game is progressing. Out of 8 players, only the Romulan, Ferengi, Dominion (me), and the Klingons are still active.

Ranking:
Dominion
Ferengi
Klingon
Romulan

The Romulans and the Klingons are the only races attaking me with intel. The Klingons have massed huge fleets and have glassed many of my worlds. The Romulans lay back, and do not attack. They have a huge fleet, but do not choose to use it.

I do not know if this is a trait or just the AI being dumb, but I fear that when I engage the Romulans, they will have a fleet twice the size of the Klingons, and equal to my own by that time. To date, every time I have engaged them, I have lost the combat.

Their intel attacks are devistating, and they have caused many of my worlds to switch sides.

The Ferengi are just as leathal, if not more so, but their time is quickly coming to an end.

God only knows how to create a dominate AI that can do all the things we want it too. But for now, we have you guys, and I sincerely hope that you all will continue to improve upon the AI's for ALL races.

That was my own worthless 2 cents.