help please with pretender SC's for early expansion

[Cainehill]

There's really a lot of possible pretender choices that can get you rolling by somewhere in between turn 3 and 7. (Note that I don't say 3 and 5, because some nations & pretenders have a harder time doing the research needed.)

One key thing, early on, is that you don't try for provinces with certain troops guarding it (knights and heavy cavalry you already know; crossbows, longbows, barbarians and lizardmen you should also tread carefully with); you also don't take (most) pretenders alone into a province where there are too many troops.

Many reasons for that : fatigue, with most pretenders (albeit a high protection, high HP pretender can take provinces while "napping", with breath of winter and fire shield up); your defense is lowered for each attack (or attacker) past the first, so that 19 defense isn't too impressive when the sixth attacker swings.

There are exceptions : you can often take 70 troops early on with a good SC pretender, if it's only militia, light infantry, and archers. Of course - there might always be some wizards for commanders, so there's almost always a chance for death.

Some things that really help early expansion : huge protection rating, which is boosted by 1 for every point of earth magic. A 12 protection pretender with 9 points in earth magic has an impressive 21 armor rating, and a pretty good bless with some nations. He also has Earth Shards for negligable fatigue (10 or 20, divided by 8, plus encumbrance) and lots of rocks - awesome for militia, archers, barbarians, and other lightly armored types.

A high fear rating or high awe rating does wonders too, as the enemies either can't attack (awe) or rout quickly (fear). Being ethereal means that 3/4 of their blows pass through you with no damage.

Naturally having multiple attacks helps; having some tough minions in every battle can help or hurt, but does tend to keep your pretender from dying. (By tough minions, I refer to serpents, lions, etc, that have reasonable morale, and can't fly.)

Other things vary by nation : a high-fire Phoenix can romp with Marignon or Abysia, because each nation starts with a potent fire spell (Holy Pyre / Flare), and doesn't mind dying in friendly domain. Similarly, any high death pretender can do well with Ermor, scripting 5 casts of Summon Skeletons - the liches and vampire having an edge, because again, they don't mind dying.

And remember - not all nations need, or do best, with a solo SC. Some that have decent troops thrive by having the pretender go along with a small contingent of troops, or spell casting pretenders. Once Vanheim researches Evocation 2, a couple of lightning casting Van-commanders with a set of regular troops do wonders.

Biggest thing to remember - learn your pretender's strengths and weaknesses, and choose provinces to attack accordingly.

[djtool]

You can use those afformentioned spells on your worm, lets say, and it'll work well but be wary of making a SC pretender that isn't immortal or doesn't have recuperation...they can rack up the afflictions pretty bad.

[Boron]

thnx for the tips cainehill and djtool .

guess i always wanted to much to quick .
a question since i experimented a bit :
i tried ctis desert tombs .
my summoned tomb wyrms are unholy . works blessing for them as well ?
or only for holy units ?
because i tried a scorpion king with fire 9 earth 9 . got quite lousy dominion scales through this but i think it is okay .
although no optimal sc the scorpion king is quite ok with casting fire shield , 4x your suggested flying shards + attack closest

unfortunately i got some very bad events like burned temple in my capitol on turn 3 so i have to restart and couldn't test if bless works on my tomb wyrms

[Endoperez]

Originally posted by Boron:
unfortunately i got some very bad events like burned temple in my capitol on turn 3 so i have to restart and couldn't test if bless works on my tomb wyrms

Remember that when testing, if you are going to play multiplayer, you have to be ready for the worst outcome as well. If you are playing just for fun, or to try out if a strategy is viable at all, then I can understand starting a new game though. I started about 6 new games yesterday, and created maybe four other pretenders I didn't even bother trying, as I were checking Atlantis. They have really bad pretender selection for bless effect!

[Boron]

Originally posted by Endoperez:

quote:

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Originally posted by Boron:
unfortunately i got some very bad events like burned temple in my capitol on turn 3 so i have to restart and couldn't test if bless works on my tomb wyrms

Remember that when testing, if you are going to play multiplayer, you have to be ready for the worst outcome as well. If you are playing just for fun, or to try out if a strategy is viable at all, then I can understand starting a new game though. I started about 6 new games yesterday, and created maybe four other pretenders I didn't even bother trying, as I were checking Atlantis. They have really bad pretender selection for bless effect!

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it was for testing purposes only if the strat is viable
at least the wyrms can be blessed . but unfortunately although it says they are sacred they can be blessed only by unholy priests .
thats not good at all for my strat
cause the only unholy priests who can summon a wyrm / turn are the lvl 4 for 23 deathgemcost .
the battlefieldwide blessing requires lvl 4 too grrr so it is nothing for earlygame and in mid/lategame there are not very useful any more

another question where can i find a list of corrected bless effects ? the manual says i get +4 prot through earth 9 but i only got +3 .

[Endoperez]

Originally posted by Boron:
another question where can i find a list of corrected bless effects ? the manual says i get +4 prot through earth 9 but i only got +3 .

Are you sure this is not the case of natural protection and protection from armor not being just summed together?

Zen answered this question in February, when Onomastikon thirsted for this knowledge.


Here is the formula for you, from the Newbie FAQ.

How do you calculate total protection on a unit with natural protection (thick skin) and armor? According to Johan O.:
"Pb = base protection, intrinsic, from stone skin etc.
Pa = protection from armor
Pt = total protection
Pb and Pa are always restricted to 40 or less. (This quote has been changed because the forum Boards cannot handle greater than and less than symbols - Cherry)

Pt=Pb+Pa -(Pa*Pb)/40
So a unit with 10 intrinsic 10 protection and a total of 18 in equipment armor would have an effective armor of: 10+18 - (10*18) /40 = 28-4.5 = 23.5, rounded up to 24"

[ July 04, 2004, 11:38: Message edited by: Endoperez ]

[tinkthank]

It would be helpful also if you mentioned the nation you want to play. (This contextualizes your question both in terms of what troops might be backing your SC up, what starting spells s/he may have access to, and what magic paths may make sense as well as what pretenders are available at all.)

Immortality is always a nice attribute to have very early (turns 1-10), since your SC will likely be nearly naked but need not care within its own dominion. For this reason, a Phoenix could be good for you if you mention Abysia (starting spell: flare), even though it cant melee its way around.