a very small suggestion for the next patch for ryhleh ( devs plz read )

[tinkthank]

How bizarre, I went to read this post because I posted the third reply, and see that with the exception of about 10 Posts on how to address the issue (mostly between PvK and Arryn -- my suggestion was a workaround), this thread has become a platform for animosities, which I bet no one really wants. Although I am sure that neither Arryn nor Graeme (or anyone else) is interested in my opinion on this matter, and I certainly don't want to take sides, I'd just like to try to difuse things a bit.
It seems to me as if the "principle of charity" should be applied here more liberally. Thus it seems to me as if
- Arryn is not stating that the game is vastly suboptimal or unfun, but just that some issues could still (reasonably) be addressed
- Graeme is stating that (more) credit should be given the developers for producing an excellent game

It seems to me that both people are correct; it seems to me (who knows neither of you) that both person's choices in formulation and in tone are suboptimal -- and although I do not want to take sides, it seems that Graeme's choice of words and phrasing is (in this thread) most ungentlemanly and poor.

I have no idea of any poll of Arryn's (I havent bothered to look, either), so I can't say whether there were insulting remarks (or implicit speech acts to that effect) previously, but it seems to me that Arryn was not being insulting to anyone in this thread here, nor was he or she (gender of Arryn = ?) indicating that the devs are making serious blunders. It also seems to me acceptable to give constructive criticism where this is due, and anyone giving reasons for this which make sense cannot be considered "insulting". I dont think Arryn is attacking anyone here. This would be a different issue if s/he were to say "What a lousy game; fix this now you lazy dev person! I want this-and-that, and it is my right to demand it from you, oh dev person!" It seems to me as if Graeme is construing Arryn to have said this, and I don't think that is necessary. Arryn did not go out of his or her way to shower the devs with praise for a fine game, and this may lead/may have led Graeme to conclude that Arryn thus believes the devs to have done a poor job -- but this, I think, is not intentional on Arryn's part. I dont think that any serious poster here need continue to shower out praise (although of course praise is nice) when offering constructive criticism in a fair and reasonable tone.

Well, the best to everyone out there -- remember, it's only a game!

[The_Tauren13]

Well said, tinkthank, although I think Graeme did have a point about Arryn's know it all attitude. I do, however, agree with Arryn.

Can we PLEASE get back to the real subject now? It seems to me that any troop should be useful, no matter how weak, especially if given for free. Maybe it’s just a balancing problem; that some units should cost less upkeep or something.

[Nagot Gick Fel]

Originally posted by The_Tauren13:
Can we PLEASE get back to the real subject now? It seems to me that any troop should be useful,

Myself I find the hybrids very useful. They only have the upkeep of a 9 gp unit, which is negligible in my book since you don't have to pay for them in the first place. I always wish they'd gather in greater numbers on my shores, since I never have enough cheap fodder.

[Boron]

Originally posted by Nagot Gick Fel:

quote:

---

Originally posted by The_Tauren13:
Can we PLEASE get back to the real subject now? It seems to me that any troop should be useful,

Myself I find the hybrids very useful. They only have the upkeep of a 9 gp unit, which is negligible in my book since you don't have to pay for them in the first place. I always wish they'd gather in greater numbers on my shores, since I never have enough cheap fodder.

---

in normal maps they are a benefit but as i said at faerun / orania if you have fortified all coastal provinces in the late game they are a burden
i think too they have upkeep of a 9 or 10 gp unit . but let's assume 10 gp : you could have instead 2 lobo guards or for 5 hybrids 1 illithid/illithid soldier ... .

It's no surprise that people only want the game to change how they want to play it and totally ignore it's impact on the way anyone else plays it (There is a certain extent of this as far as Dom2 being primarily moded to MP).

[Nagot Gick Fel]

Originally posted by Boron:
in normal maps they are a benefit but as i said at faerun / orania if you have fortified all coastal provinces in the late game they are a burden

Anyone is entitled is own opinion. Anyway I've played R'lyeh once on the World map, and to me they were a blessing rather than a burden.

i think too they have upkeep of a 9 or 10 gp unit .

It's 9, without a doubt. At least that's what my own 'upkeep calculator' says.

but let's assume 10 gp : you could have instead 2 lobo guards or for 5 hybrids 1 illithid/illithid soldier ... .

Wrong. You have to factor in the initial cost, and the life expectancy of the unit. My own loboes and hybrids rarely live more than 5 turns average, so for me hybrids are considerably cheaper.

And comparing Illithids to hybrids is like comparing apples to oranges. Illithids are more durable (partly because I take care of them), and have a very different role, and each role has to be fulfilled - so I want both.

[Boron]

Originally posted by Nagot Gick Fel:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Boron:
in normal maps they are a benefit but as i said at faerun / orania if you have fortified all coastal provinces in the late game they are a burden

Anyone is entitled is own opinion. Anyway I've played R'lyeh once on the World map, and to me they were a blessing rather than a burden.

---

try them on faerun . the world map is not so big like faerun and more important it is one gigantic sea while in faerun you have your coast and then your next opponent can be 5-6 landprovinces away but you still have not won but only 1/3 of the map.
there they are a curse.
on the world map i believe that they were more a bless than a curse because you have no such long inland distances like faerun.

Originally posted by Nagot Gick Fel:

quote:

---

but let's assume 10 gp : you could have instead 2 lobo guards or for 5 hybrids 1 illithid/illithid soldier ... .

Wrong. You have to factor in the initial cost, and the life expectancy of the unit. My own loboes and hybrids rarely live more than 5 turns average, so for me hybrids are considerably cheaper.

And comparing Illithids to hybrids is like comparing apples to oranges. Illithids are more durable (partly because I take care of them), and have a very different role, and each role has to be fulfilled - so I want both.

---

i agree somehow to this but they all have upkeep in common and if you would be allowed to choose i would take some cheap summons / lobos rather as fodder than the hybrids because i can't control them and say stop when i don't want any more of them .

finally i have to say that generally you are right only at the faerun map they are a disadvantage and only if you build castles .
but i love the faerun map most and ryhleh is one of the best castling nations at all so you have to take one of 2 bad choices at faerun . either lowering upkeep or not building castles in coastal provinces