Draconian Mod Under construction

[Boron]

thnx liga & turms .

i should have looked in my statistics book before i post this

5+ 1/4 ^ 5 * 3/4 ~ 0.07 % times 6 ~ 0.4 %
4+ 1/4 ^ 4 * 3/4 ^ 2 ~ 0.2% times 15 ~ 3.3 %
3+ 1/4 ^ 3 * 3/4 ^ 3 ~ 0.7 % times 20 ~ 13.1 %

liga could you please share how you come to 6 , 15 and 20 times exactly ?

[Thilock_Dominus]

Originally posted by Sindai:
Why is the astral there at all, though? it doesn't fit with the rest of their magic. Heck, even the other magic-Users in that "family" of units don't get any astral. It really doesn't make any sense and detracts from the symmetry of the design.

...and again why do the C'tis have astral?
When I made my first thoughts on how a Draconian Temple priest would be like was a priest who can bless the troops and see beyond the matrial world (astral magic). That's the thoughts that came up when I tried to imagine how such person would be like. An old draconian with a staff, wise and noble, marked by the years. Dressed in extravegant(sp?) robe.
So I fail to see your point. Alot of the nations have 2 major magic paths and a minor one that doesn't spoil their themes IMHO.

It's really not much of a gamble. You're guaranteed low of medium levels in all 4 elements, or a high level in one. That alone is pretty useful.

But that's not really the main problem with the unit. It has the same primary problem as the astral priest: why is it there? It doesn't seem to fit the fire-wind theme. Acro and Spring and Autumn are practically built around hefty random-magic units, this one just seems to have been tacked on for the heck of it. I would drop the unit altogether.

No way! The story behind why the draconians have changelings is some of the draconian eggs had suffered from magic radiation which alter the consistent of the draconian baby's DNA so their cells can change form.I know it sounds a bit star trek , but a like the Idea of the a part of the draconian race suffered from the strong magic that are flowing within the mountains where they live. And afterall it's only the Arcane Changeling which have randoms and Draconian Elder which have one random.

I can't see the water-sink problem. Yes the units need some adjustments. That's the beta test for

I'm open for critizism but I can't see your point of you... but we(Those who wants to beta test and I) just have to see how it fits before denying possible units and heroes.


best regards
Thilock

[Sandman]

Endoperez and Sindai have both made good points, and I agree with them. Apart from the gold cost, the weaknesses of this race are trivial. Their strengths are equivalent to three normal nations.

1.Flying
2.Scaly
3.Bite
4.Fire Breath
5.Fire resistance
6.Powerful mages of Fire, Air and Astral
7.Decent mage priests
8.The most flexible mage in the game, bar none. Who cares if he's capital only?
9.SC assassins.
10. Almost unlimited searching and forging opportunities.
11. Excellent province defence. Probably.

Their biting ability alone could carry a nation. There aren't that many units with multiple attacks, and they are often expensive or have limitations. These guys have a secondary attack as a racial feature. They're going to chew (literally) through the opposition. And that's just one of their minor abilities.

[Thilock_Dominus]

Here is the stats for the dragons:

Any Idea how muxh the cost should be? Or some modification?
They gonna be capitol restricted.

Storm Dragon
HP: 125 PROT: 18 MORALE: 20 MIR: 20 ENC: 4 AP: 10 Move: 2
STR: 23 ATT: 15 DF: 12 PRE: 10

Abilities: Mountain Survival, Flying, Lightning res (100), Fear, Heal, storm res.

Weapon: Bite, claw, Lightning breath

Armour: None

Cost : ???????

Pyro Dragon
HP: 130 PROT: 18 MORALE: 20 MIR: 20 ENC: 4 AP: 10 Move: 2
STR: 25 ATT: 15 DF: 12 PRE: 10

Abilities: Mountain Survival, Flying, Fire res (100), Fear, Heal

Weapon: Bite, Claw, Fire breath

Armour: None

Cost : ???????

Temple Dragon
HP: 135 PROT: 18 MORALE: 20 MIR: 20 ENC: 4 AP: 10 Move: 2
STR: 25 ATT: 15 DF: 14 PRE: 10

Abilities: Mountain Survival, Flying, Holy, Fear, Heal

Weapon: Bite, Claw, Frost breath

Armour: None

Cost : ???????


By the way I'm thinking on dropping the Changelings, it seems people think it's a bad Idea. What about letting a commander called 'Story Teller' replacing them. An unit with bard skills?


best regards
Thilock

[Thilock_Dominus]

Originally posted by Sandman:
Endoperez and Sindai have both made good points, and I agree with them. Apart from the gold cost, the weaknesses of this race are trivial. Their strengths are equivalent to three normal nations.

1.Flying
2.Scaly
3.Bite
4.Fire Breath
5.Fire resistance
6.Powerful mages of Fire, Air and Astral
7.Decent mage priests
8.The most flexible mage in the game, bar none. Who cares if he's capital only?
9.SC assassins.
10. Almost unlimited searching and forging opportunities.
11. Excellent province defence. Probably.

Their biting ability alone could carry a nation. There aren't that many units with multiple attacks, and they are often expensive or have limitations. These guys have a secondary attack as a racial feature. They're going to chew (literally) through the opposition. And that's just one of their minor abilities.

Point taken.

[johan osterman]

Any particular reason why these dragons, unlike the pretender dragons, have the heal ability? Also so far in dom 2 the only creatures with MR 20 is Horrors, Starspawns, Abominations and Rlyeh specific pretenders, so it might be a good idea to give the dragons MR 17 or 18 instead. As the unit stands at present the draconian elder is one of the very best wizards in the game, as far as I recall there is no other nation specific recruitable wizard that stands a chance of getting 4 in 2 different magic scores, add to this that the unit is flying has good precision and has some, albeit weak, innate protection.

[Boron]

Originally posted by Thilock_Dominus:

Storm Dragon
HP: 125 PROT: 18 MORALE: 20 MIR: 20 ENC: 4 AP: 10 Move: 2
STR: 23 ATT: 15 DF: 12 PRE: 10

Abilities: Mountain Survival, Flying, Lightning res (100), Fear, Heal, storm res.

Weapon: Bite, claw, Lightning breath

Armour: None

Cost : ???????

Thilock

2 questions first to your abbreviations :
heal is that recuperation ability ? or regeneration ?

MIR = magic resistence or ? MR would be a less misleading abbreviation i think if that really should mean magic resitence


for evaluation how high gold costs should be is the knowlegde of slots important ihmo

furthermore : what are their magic path(s) ?

if they "only" have head and 2-3 misc slots and no magic path(s) the dragons should "only" cost about 300-400 nonsacred or 500-700 sacred .


if they furthermore have :
body slot : +50/100 gold cost when they are normal/sacred
per magic path point :
+25/50 gold

this way i think balance according to the jotun niefel giants etc is a bit ensured .

since dragons and giants are natural enemies and a niefel jarl has some magic abilities + all slots but "only" costs 500 sacred gold i think he is a good bench mark for the costs of dragons .

P.S. : liga would you please share how you come to exactly 6/15/20 permutations ?
for 5+ i think it is :
12 possible permutations : (A5E ,A5W ,A5F)x4 = 12

so with 6 randoms the chance for 3+ is probably even higher than you calculated .
it is a combination of 2 probabilityformulas i think .

thnx for either proving me wrong again and explaining your number of permutations or correcting it to the even higher percentages in advance