Draconian Mod Under construction

Boron · #1 August 2nd, 2004, 08:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by johan osterman:
Any particular reason why these dragons, unlike the pretender dragons, have the heal ability? Also so far in dom 2 the only creatures with MR 20 is Horrors, Starspawns, Abominations and Rlyeh specific pretenders, so it might be a good idea to give the dragons MR 17 or 18 instead. As the unit stands at present the draconian elder is one of the very best wizards in the game, as far as I recall there is no other nation specific recruitable wizard that stands a chance of getting 4 in 2 different magic scores, add to this that the unit is flying has good precision and has some, albeit weak, innate protection.

the 20 mr were my evil influence i guess

i thought because they only have like a doom horror head + 1-2 misc slots or perhaps even only 1 misc slot but cost about 800-1000 gold at least they need a high base mr .
otherwise it is just too frustrating to have a very expensive dragon for which you saved long and get it killed repeatedly e.g. by ryleh mages casting mass soul slays and the like .

my thinking was a doom horror has 20 mr , probably exactly the same slots and he is something as powerful as a dragon should be

Arryn · #2 August 2nd, 2004, 09:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Boron:
my thinking was a doom horror has 20 mr , probably exactly the same slots and he is something as powerful as a dragon should be

That's where you went astray. A Doom Horror is supposed to be nastier than a dragon. Just think for a minute the sorts of images that the words "doom" and "horror" bring to mind, then consider what something called a "Doom Horror" (note the two capital letters) might be capable of. A dragon may be terrifying to behold, and capable of horrific carnage, but a creature that bringeth Doom is another order of magnitude entirely.

Boron · #3 August 2nd, 2004, 09:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Arryn:

quote:
Originally posted by Boron:
my thinking was a doom horror has 20 mr , probably exactly the same slots and he is something as powerful as a dragon should be

That's where you went astray. A Doom Horror is supposed to be nastier than a dragon. Just think for a minute the sorts of images that the words "doom" and "horror" bring to mind, then consider what something called a "Doom Horror" (note the two capital letters) might be capable of. A dragon may be terrifying to behold, and capable of horrific carnage, but a creature that bringeth Doom is another order of magnitude entirely.

i just LOVE dragons

the doom horror is a special dominions creation

in many fantasy games dragons are really powerful .
and in dominions 3 of them are pretender gods .
so if they advance to real godhood they are much more powerful than a doom horror

and even with 20 mr for a dragon a doom horror is still nastier in dom 2 anyways

in 1 on 1 combat he still kills Thilock's dragons mostly i think because he has higher def + attack than the dragons + his astral claws will kill the dragon in no time .

Thilock_Dominus · #4 August 2nd, 2004, 10:03 PM

New Unit list:

C = Commander
** = Capitol restricted
*** = Need a temple
**** = Need laboratory

Temple Servant - C ***
HP: 10 PROT: 5 MORALE: 12 MR: 13 ENC: 7 AP: 10 Move: 2
STR: 10 ATT: 9 DF: 8 PRE: 12

Abilities: 2 Holy, 2 Air, Fire Flare Breath (350), Mountain Survival, Fire res (50)
Holy, Heal, Flying, Female

General:Poor Leader (10)
Item Slot: 15622

Weapon: Ritual Dagger (603), Bite (20)

Armour: None

Cost: 240 gold/ 5 Resources

Temple Priest - C ***
HP: 15 PROT: 5 MORALE: 16 MR: 15 ENC: 6 AP: 10 Move: 2
STR: 12 ATT: 10 DF: 14 PRE: 12

Abilities: 2 astral, 2 air, 3 Holy, Fire Flare breath (350),
Mountain Survival, Flying, Fire res: (75), Holy, Heal

General: Oak Leader (25)
Item slot: 15622

Weapon: Wooden Dragon Staff (601), Bite (20)

Armour: None

Cost: 450 gold/12 resources

Temple Lord - C
HP: 22 PROT: 10 MORALE: 16 MR: 14 ENC: 6 AP: 11 Move: 1
STR: 16 ATT: 14 DF: 16 PRE: 12

Abilities: Fire Flare Breath (350), Holy, Mountain Survival,
Ambidextrous (3), Fire res. (75), Heal

General: Expert Leader (50)
Item Slot: 15622 + 4096

Weapon: Falchion (10), Falchion (10), Bite (20)

Armour: Scale Mail Armor (12)

Cost : 380 gold/35 resources

Temple Guards
HP: 16 PROT: 7 MORALE: 14 MR: 12 ENC: 4 AP:10 Move: 1
STR: 14 ATT: 12 DF: 12 PRE: 9

Abilities: Mountain Survival, Fire res (50), Holy, Heal

Weapon: Draconic Falchion, Bite (20)

Armour: Draconic Silver Scale Mail, Round shield

Cost: 70 gold/ 40 resources

-------------------------

Draconian Lord - C
HP: 16 PROT: 10 MORALE: 13 MR: 12 ENC: 7 AP: 10 Move: 2
STR: 14 ATT: 10 DF: 11 PRE: 10

Abilities: Fire Flare Breath (350), Mountain Survival, Fire res. (50), Flying

General: Oak Leader (25)
Item Slot 15622

Weapon: Draconic Spear (602), Bite (20)

Armour: Ring Mail (6), Helmet (20)

Cost: 150 gold/18 resources

Draconian City Guards
HP: 14 PROT: 7 MORALE: 12 MR: 12 ENC: 5 AP: 10 Move : 2
STR: 14 ATT: 10 DF: 10 PRE: 9

Abilities: Mountain Survival, Fire res (50), fortress guard bonus (+2), Flying

Weapon: Draconic Halbard, bite (20)

Armour: Scale mail

Cost: 22 gold/ 10 resources

-------------------

Draconian Pyro Lord - C
HP: 19 PROT: 10 MORALE: 14 MR: 13 ENC: 6 AP: 10 Move: 2
STR: 14 ATT: 12 DF: 12 PRE: 10

Abilities: Fire Flare Breath (350), Mountain Survival, Fire res. (100), Flying

General: Expert Leader (50)
Item Slot 15622

Weapon: Draconic Falchion, Bite (20)

Armour: Scale Mail (7), Round Shield (2)

Cost : 260 gold/ 25 resources

Draconian Storm Lord - C
HP: 19 PROT: 10 MORALE: 14 MR: 13 ENC: 6 AP: 10 Move: 2
STR: 14 ATT: 12 DF: 12 PRE: 10

Abilities: Lightning Breath, Mountain Survival, Lightning res. (100), Flying

General: Expert Leader (50)
Item Slot 15622

Weapon: Draconic Falchion, Bite (20)

Armour: Scale Mail (7), Round Shield (2)

Cost : 260 gold/ 25 resources

Pyro Draconians
HP: 14 PROT: 7 MORALE: 12 MR: 12 ENC: 5 AP: 10 Move: 2
STR: 14 ATT: 12 DF: 12 PRE: 10

Abilities: Mountain Survival, Flying, Fire res (75)

Weapon: Draconic Spear, bite (20)

Armour: Draconic Scale Mail

Cost: 35 gold/ 22 resources

Storm Draconians
HP: 14 PROT: 7 MORALE: 12 MR: 12 ENC: 5 AP: 10 Move: 2
STR: 14 ATT: 12 DF: 12 PRE: 10

Abilities: Mountain Survival, Flying, Shock res (75)

Weapon: Draconic Spear, bite (20)

Armour: Draconic Scale Mail

Cost : 35 gold/ 22 resources

--------------------------

Draconian Apprentice - C ****
HP: 10 PROT: 2 MORALE: 12 MR: 13 ENC: 4 AP: 9 Move: 2
STR: 8 ATT: 8 DF: 10 PRE: 11

Abilities: 1 Fire, 1 Air, Mountain Survival, Fire res (25), Flying.

General: Poor Leader (10)
Item Slot: 15622

Weapon: Draconic Dagger (9), Bite (20)

Armour: None

Cost : 180 gold/ 2 resources

Draconian Elder - C ****
HP: 12 PROT: 5 MORALE: 16 MR: 15 ENC: 5 AP: 10 Move: 2
STR: 12 ATT: 8 DF: 10 PRE: 12

Abilities: 2 Fire, 2 Air, 1 E. Random, Fire Flare Breath (350), Mountain Survival.
Fire res (75), Flying

General: Oak Leader (25)
Item Slot: 15622

Weapon: Wooden Dragon Staff (604), Bite (20)

Armour: None

Cost: 360 gold/ 10 resources

----------------------------

Storm Dragon - C **
HP: 125 PROT: 18 MORALE: 20 MR: 17 ENC: 4 AP: 10 Move: 2
STR: 23 ATT: 15 DF: 12 PRE: 10

Abilities: Mountain Survival, Flying, Lightning res (100), Fear, Heal, storm res.

Weapon: Bite, claw, Lightning breath

Armour: None

Cost : ???????

Pyro Dragon - C **
HP: 130 PROT: 18 MORALE: 20 MR: 17 ENC: 4 AP: 10 Move: 2
STR: 25 ATT: 15 DF: 12 PRE: 10

Abilities: Mountain Survival, Flying, Fire res (100), Fear, Heal

Weapon: Bite, Claw, Fire breath

Armour: None

Cost : ???????

Temple Dragon - C **
HP: 135 PROT: 18 MORALE: 20 MR: 17 ENC: 4 AP: 10 Move: 2
STR: 25 ATT: 15 DF: 14 PRE: 10

Abilities: Mountain Survival, Flying, Holy, Fear, Heal

Weapon: Bite, Claw, Frost breath

Armour: None

Cost : ???????

Scout and regular infantries under construction.

[ August 02, 2004, 21:04: Message edited by: Thilock_Dominus ]

Boron · #5 August 2nd, 2004, 10:39 PM

first : looks good

i post some minor problems i see :

Quote:

Originally posted by Thilock_Dominus:
New Unit list:

C = Commander
** = Capitol restricted
*** = Need a temple
**** = Need laboratory

Temple Servant - C ***
HP: 10 PROT: 5 MORALE: 12 MR: 13 ENC: 7 AP: 10 Move: 2
STR: 10 ATT: 9 DF: 8 PRE: 12

Abilities: 2 Holy, 2 Air, Fire Flare Breath (350), Mountain Survival, Fire res (50)
Holy, Heal, Flying, Female

General:Poor Leader (10)
Item Slot: 15622

Weapon: Ritual Dagger (603), Bite (20)

Armour: None

Cost: 240 gold/ 5 Resources

no problem here

Quote:

Originally posted by Thilock_Dominus:

Temple Priest - C ***
HP: 15 PROT: 5 MORALE: 16 MR: 15 ENC: 6 AP: 10 Move: 2
STR: 12 ATT: 10 DF: 14 PRE: 12

Abilities: 2 astral, 2 air, 3 Holy, Fire Flare breath (350),
Mountain Survival, Flying, Fire res: (75), Holy, Heal

General: Oak Leader (25)
Item slot: 15622

Weapon: Wooden Dragon Staff (601), Bite (20)

Armour: None

Cost: 450 gold/12 resources

2 problems here :
1: Fire res: (75) means 75% right ?
afaik there will be no possibility via items / spells then to make them 100% fire resistent .
2:450 gold cost and astral 2 : this is an invitation to many many nations to mind duel you to death .

Quote:

Originally posted by Thilock_Dominus:

Temple Lord - C
HP: 22 PROT: 10 MORALE: 16 MR: 14 ENC: 6 AP: 11 Move: 1
STR: 16 ATT: 14 DF: 16 PRE: 12

Abilities: Fire Flare Breath (350), Holy, Mountain Survival,
Ambidextrous (3), Fire res. (75), Heal

General: Expert Leader (50)
Item Slot: 15622 + 4096

Weapon: Falchion (10), Falchion (10), Bite (20)

Armour: Scale Mail Armor (12)

Cost : 380 gold/35 resources

i think here the cost is too high . he is flying and has "only" 10 protection . if your enemy has any x-bows 2-3 hits will surely kill him i think .

Quote:

Originally posted by Thilock_Dominus:

Temple Guards
HP: 16 PROT: 7 MORALE: 14 MR: 12 ENC: 4 AP:10 Move: 1
STR: 14 ATT: 12 DF: 12 PRE: 9

Abilities: Mountain Survival, Fire res (50), Holy, Heal

Weapon: Draconic Falchion, Bite (20)

Armour: Draconic Silver Scale Mail, Round shield

Cost: 70 gold/ 40 resources

too high resource costs ihmo

he only has 7 protection so nothing hard to forge but with 40 resource costs higher resource cost than any ulm infantry . or a better comparison unit : an caelum iceclad has 43 resource costs but iirc 18 protection for that .
so here the high gold price is already enough for balance reasons i think

.

Quote:

Originally posted by Thilock_Dominus:

-------------------------

Draconian Lord - C
HP: 16 PROT: 10 MORALE: 13 MR: 12 ENC: 7 AP: 10 Move: 2
STR: 14 ATT: 10 DF: 11 PRE: 10

Abilities: Fire Flare Breath (350), Mountain Survival, Fire res. (50), Flying

General: Oak Leader (25)
Item Slot 15622

Weapon: Draconic Spear (602), Bite (20)

Armour: Ring Mail (6), Helmet (20)

Cost: 150 gold/18 resources

Draconian City Guards
HP: 14 PROT: 7 MORALE: 12 MR: 12 ENC: 5 AP: 10 Move : 2
STR: 14 ATT: 10 DF: 10 PRE: 9

Abilities: Mountain Survival, Fire res (50), fortress guard bonus (+2), Flying

Weapon: Draconic Halbard, bite (20)

Armour: Scale mail

Cost: 22 gold/ 10 resources

-------------------

Draconian Pyro Lord - C
HP: 19 PROT: 10 MORALE: 14 MR: 13 ENC: 6 AP: 10 Move: 2
STR: 14 ATT: 12 DF: 12 PRE: 10

Abilities: Fire Flare Breath (350), Mountain Survival, Fire res. (100), Flying

General: Expert Leader (50)
Item Slot 15622

Weapon: Draconic Falchion, Bite (20)

Armour: Scale Mail (7), Round Shield (2)

Cost : 260 gold/ 25 resources

no problems here

Boron · #6 August 2nd, 2004, 10:41 PM

part 2 :
seems i have reached maximum letter lengths so i have to split it

Quote:

Originally posted by Thilock_Dominus:

Draconian Storm Lord - C
HP: 19 PROT: 10 MORALE: 14 MR: 13 ENC: 6 AP: 10 Move: 2
STR: 14 ATT: 12 DF: 12 PRE: 10

Abilities: Lightning Breath, Mountain Survival, Lightning res. (100), Flying

General: Expert Leader (50)
Item Slot 15622

Weapon: Draconic Falchion, Bite (20)

Armour: Scale Mail (7), Round Shield (2)

Cost : 260 gold/ 25 resources

just for confirmation : the name just CRIES after flying ability during storm

Quote:

Originally posted by Thilock_Dominus:

Pyro Draconians
HP: 14 PROT: 7 MORALE: 12 MR: 12 ENC: 5 AP: 10 Move: 2
STR: 14 ATT: 12 DF: 12 PRE: 10

Abilities: Mountain Survival, Flying, Fire res (75)

Weapon: Draconic Spear, bite (20)

Armour: Draconic Scale Mail

Cost: 35 gold/ 22 resources

ihmo for nonsacred unit slightly too high gold / resource costs . i would suggest 25 gold / 15 resources or something like that .

Quote:

Originally posted by Thilock_Dominus:

Storm Draconians
HP: 14 PROT: 7 MORALE: 12 MR: 12 ENC: 5 AP: 10 Move: 2
STR: 14 ATT: 12 DF: 12 PRE: 10

Abilities: Mountain Survival, Flying, Shock res (75)

Weapon: Draconic Spear, bite (20)

Armour: Draconic Scale Mail

Cost : 35 gold/ 22 resources

they have storm flying ability or ?

i think again a bit too high costs . here i would suggest 30 gold / 15 resources because of stormfly ability .
if my memory is right lightning resistence should either be changed to 50 or 100% to avoid resistence problems .

--------------------------

Quote:

Originally posted by Thilock_Dominus:

Draconian Apprentice - C ****
HP: 10 PROT: 2 MORALE: 12 MR: 13 ENC: 4 AP: 9 Move: 2
STR: 8 ATT: 8 DF: 10 PRE: 11

Abilities: 1 Fire, 1 Air, Mountain Survival, Fire res (25), Flying.

General: Poor Leader (10)
Item Slot: 15622

Weapon: Draconic Dagger (9), Bite (20)

Armour: None

Cost : 180 gold/ 2 resources

Draconian Elder - C ****
HP: 12 PROT: 5 MORALE: 16 MR: 15 ENC: 5 AP: 10 Move: 2
STR: 12 ATT: 8 DF: 10 PRE: 12

Abilities: 2 Fire, 2 Air, 1 E. Random, Fire Flare Breath (350), Mountain Survival.
Fire res (75), Flying

General: Oak Leader (25)
Item Slot: 15622

Weapon: Wooden Dragon Staff (604), Bite (20)

Armour: None

Cost: 360 gold/ 10 resources

----------------------------

everything expect perhaps 75% resistence ok

Quote:

Originally posted by Thilock_Dominus:

Storm Dragon - C **
HP: 125 PROT: 18 MORALE: 20 MR: 17 ENC: 4 AP: 10 Move: 2
STR: 23 ATT: 15 DF: 12 PRE: 10

Abilities: Mountain Survival, Flying, Lightning res (100), Fear, Heal, storm res.

Weapon: Bite, claw, Lightning breath

Armour: None

Cost : ???????

Pyro Dragon - C **
HP: 130 PROT: 18 MORALE: 20 MR: 17 ENC: 4 AP: 10 Move: 2
STR: 25 ATT: 15 DF: 12 PRE: 10

Abilities: Mountain Survival, Flying, Fire res (100), Fear, Heal

Weapon: Bite, Claw, Fire breath

Armour: None

Cost : ???????

Temple Dragon - C **
HP: 135 PROT: 18 MORALE: 20 MR: 17 ENC: 4 AP: 10 Move: 2
STR: 25 ATT: 15 DF: 14 PRE: 10

Abilities: Mountain Survival, Flying, Holy, Fear, Heal

Weapon: Bite, Claw, Frost breath

Armour: None

Cost : ???????

Scout and regular infantries under construction.

would you please post the slots for the dragons ?
with only 2 misc + headslot ( like the pretenderdragons ) i suggest based on that assumption : ( and because they seem to have no magic path

)

storm dragon + pyro dragon :
300 gold
temple dragon :
because of holy + perhaps bless effects resulting in that :
500 gold

more than 500 is prohibitive by the niefel jarl as similiar unit which can be fully euquipped .

all 3 dragons are units not leaders right ?

p.s. : don't forget to assign every unit (especially the dragons slots + leader abilities ) because i will surely GoR some of them

Boron · #7 August 2nd, 2004, 10:45 PM

finally so far your mod seems already well balanced

if we can further improve it would the following scenario be possible ? :

should be really little work for illwinter only 10-30 minutes i think :

they could include your nation as a 18ths playable nation in the next patch .
and other well balanced mods .
especially pvks amazon empire mod comes to my mind there .

so that we have 20 races in the next patch :

your draconians , pvks amazons and illwinters 3rd water race which they announced

that would be a really gorgeous idea imho